Catholic church - time to call it a day?

[Chil1234]

I truly hope that the latest scandals and accusations have hit the catholic church hard or preferably killed it stone dead. If it were isolated incidents or if the problems had been handled considerately, it might be put down to the vagiaries of life or the human condition. If other religious organisations had the same breadth of complaints one might make a faith connection. But it isn't the case.

The catholic church's position of absolute authority, of 'doing God's work', and expecting unthinking obedience, has resulted in apalling corruption and terrible abuse..... from the Magdalen Laundries, the Holly Mount Orphanage, the organisations that shipped children off to terrible conditions in Australia to the cover-ups surrounding abusive priests today. People in my own family have been direct victims of 'pastoral care', having their lives ruined when they most needed help. It's not enough to say that the church does a lot of good work or that there are good people in the organisation... that does not compensate for the instutionalised megalomania and abuse of privilege.

When the Pope visits I, for one, will not be there to greet him. Shame on the lot of them

'You also said that ther was a distinct contrast between Ratzinger and Woytila (the last pope) because Woytila was an anti Nazi and helped escaping Jews'

Ok seriously. The Pope was 14 during WW2, his father was active in his hatred of the Nazi's. The Pope was never in the Nazi party and never supported them. His own cousin was murdered by them for having Down's and he has talked about how horrified his family were.

To say things like that is blatant racism. JPII was a Pole so of course was anti Nazi but Benedict was a German so must have been a Nazi right?! Well JPII was a ADULT during WW2 so was naturally capible of doing more than a CHILD! To imply that he was not as 'anti Nazi' as JP is very offensive. My Godfather was 6 months old in Germany at the end of the war, is he a Nazi becuase he didn't directly help escpaing Jews?

I don't think we should go down the road of how the Church assisted the Germans in the second world war, it won't help the case for Catholicism. Still would love to know what you think of a Head teacher knowing what the Pope knew and ignoring it....I guess we know the answer as you blasted the seventeen year old for far less than the Pope did.....

I gave my answer to that last night.

It's not what the Church did during WW2, it's the character assassination on the Pope I'm unhappy with. I don't like people making out he was not 'anti Nazi' because he was too young to help escpaing Jews like JPII.

Mr. Ratzinger has assisted in his own character assassination by being exposed as a prominent member of the Church hierarchy concealing what he knew to be wrong both criminally and morally.
He has brought the Papacy into disrepute and he should resign. However, I am more than certain he won't as that would be another admission of 'obsessive concealment' - something the Catholic Church is now famous for.
I am also more than certain that there will be more revelations in the not too distant future.

posie defo want him to go, my heart sank the day the college elected him, can a pope be impeached?

SK;

I will never leave the catholic church as it is my faith, and that faith wants me to believe that the vast majority of priests and nuns do good work and wouldn't hurt anyone...but anyone who has been involved in the abuse of children, or in any cover-up, should be arrested and thrown in prison, and that includes the pope.

Catholics are not above the law, if this happened in any other organization these vile people would have been arrested and dealt with....the only way we can continue with any credibility is if we kick out the people who are currently in power and have a complete overhaul..

Actually SKatty I think that both Benedict and JP were as bad as each other. There is a "silent malarial fog that envelops the inner workings of the Vatican" There were cover ups invoving sexually abusing priests in Woytjla's day just as there have been under Ratzinger nothing has changed. Woytjla even said that every family should have a "private room in their house where these things should be discussed" for that he was referring to the money laundering scandal at the Vatican Bank and the involvement of some pretty high up clergy. There were also the alleged links to CIA his failure to criticise the Reagan administration in the US and the total lack of support shown to the left wing Priests in Latin America who were trying to help the poor and oppressed in Latin America

@daftpunk spot on!

Mmmm....

Correct Me if i'm wrong, but homosexuality and sex out side of marriage are both prohibited under catholic dogma.

Priests are all Men and to remain unmarried.

It follows then that priests buggering the alter boy is a contravention of TWO papal laws.

If Mr. Ratzinger chose to not only cover up past crimes but instructed subordinates to cover up FUTURE contraventions, then he is demonstrably willing to flout dogma.

I'm amazed that any catholic would defend the right of a man, who is patently not a catholic, to remain pope

Strictly you have indicated that you support him, I am deeply shocked as you slated a seventeen year old for not reporting abuse but you let this man, this man of God, off.

I hope he goes. Thanks B and M for your responses.

The Pope is more than just this scandal. There is no ability for a Pope to resign so if he tried to the Church would be in chaos. It is better, imo, for the Pope to redeem himself by working to make sure this never happens again. The Pope has shown with his Irish apology that he understands massive mistakes have been made and would like to help make sure they cannot happen again.

The Pope is one man, he himself has not committed a crime, but is the person best placed to deal with those who have.

Also the 17 year old WATCHED abuse happen for 2 years and said nothing.

There is no evidence that the Pope has either commited or been complicit with abuse, only that he has not acted when presented with the imformation that abuse has happened.

The 17 year old is an accessory to a crime, she willingly let abuse continue. She SAW it happen and said nothing.

With the American case the Pope was told only long after the Priest in question had been incapacitated and was about to die.

What he did was wrong but not the same at all.

"The Pope is one man, he himself has not committed a crime, but is the person best placed to deal with those who have."

In the first place i think the best people to deal with those that have committed a CRIME are the police, and in the second place, the fact that Ratzinger was part of the strategy which kept the abuse of 200 American chldren away from legal action, and helped cover it up, shows that he is not even the best person within the church to deal with it.

StrictlyKitty - the Archbishop asked Cardinal Ratzinger, TWICE, to remove the bishop.

I can't understand why the Archbishop did not immediately go to the police, tbh.

@ StrictlyKatty

I understand that you have your own opinion and you are, of course, entitled to it. but please STOP stating things as fact which simply are not. Mr. Reitzinger is an accessory after the fact and perverted the course of justice.

Please stop saying he did nothing wrong. it isn't true. He bullied the entire church hierarchy it to silence and an legal conspiracy to cover up future crimes.

You seem to think that covering up for kiddie fiddlers is not all that bad. or at least not as bad as rodgering choir boys in the first place. I'm sorry, your wrong. can you really not see how big a deal this is?

It's rare that I agree with daftpunk but this is one of those occasions.

SK - please read this article about sexual abuse in the US,
[[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8556461.stm this one about sexual abuse in Germany], this one about sexual abuse in Ireland,
this one about sexual abuse in the Netherlands and finally this round up of abuse in a number of other countries. If I were Catholic, I'd be asking some bloody hard questions right now and putting immense pressure on your Church to make commitment to wholesale change to ensure that this never, ever happens again. And that needs to come from the top.

You said: There is no evidence that the Pope has either commited or been complicit with abuse, only that he has not acted when presented with the imformation that abuse has happened.

Can you explain to me the difference between being complicit and not acting on information that abuse has happened because I'm struggling to see it?

Link for article about Germany

Dittany...I think I love you.

No YOU were intolerant it was oozing from every pore. And you have projected all your bitterness and bile onto me. I still see you in that pinstripe suit though, what is it you do futures or derivatives? You work in an all male hostile environment defo a Bank and this has skewed your view of men. If your trading floor is too full of macho prigs give them the lecture don't direct it at me.

I am suffering a sever inner crisis of some sort - I find myself agreeing with Dittany - (no big surprise there) - but also with daftpunk - which has never happened before! Help me someone!