The Pope is coming to UK to campaign against equality: Does this make him a respectable leader of faith or a bigot?

[Strix]

What do you think?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8492597.stm

Actually DP supported me when I was in a dark place. Everyone has good in them and these threads don't show DP in her true light. So I shall carry on saying that I like her. Because I'm a TRUE catholic!

"I want to keep homosexuality out of my church and schools....That is my right, and the right of all catholics."

Following my earlier suggestion let's rephrase this....

"I want to keep black people out of my church and schools....That is my right"

This country has laws against bigotry and oppression.

It's thanks to those that people like DP are even able to be on here saying those things rather than being beaten in the kitchen for cooking dinner too slowly.

If you grant one group the ability to ignore the law because of their "beliefs" how long before misogynists, wife beaters and racists demand that their beliefs put them above the law too?

I think DP's 'lifestyle' comments and fear of homosexuals being in Catholic schools just shows how ignorant some people are as to what homosexuality actually is.
Heterosexual children will not be made gay by virtue of having a gay teacher. Sexuality is not like osmosis.

That's it,it's just like Grease where Stockard Channing sings "there are worse things I could do.." (would link to this but can't do links,so you are spared!)

It is focussing on one set of issues,when the focus should be elsewhere. I had always thought the only "justification" for the way the Catholic Church dealt with the child abuse would be that they believed in repentance and the possibility of change(and took this to an extreme,failing to make sure children were safe) - and I have never seen any comment remotely corresponding to this.

Riven;

I don't really like replying to you anymore incase I get blamed for you flouncing again..

I am not a bigot by saying I don't accept homosexuality as normal/natural....they are my religious beliefs

I would never question your religion or beliefs.

The equality bill effects muslims aswell you know.....how will your leaders react when they have to say homosexuality is natural...?

Understandable Lenin. Sorry you feel hurt by that.

A catholics job in this life is not to judge or condemn, but to forgive, understand, listen. Jesus would never have turned his back on one section of society. He preached acceptance and as catholics that is the message we should be heeding. Not putting our faith and trust into whatever Saint Paul and some dictator Pope says - Jesus started Christianity and it is to him that we should turn. After all, he did warn us about people using religion for their own gains.

sorry,thread has moved on and I now make no sense! that was a response to Rhubarb,a while back!

Happy birthday Rhubarb

I'm outta here

x

Pogles, the church never addressed the issues. Priests and bishops were simply moved parishes and the new parish were never warned, so it left children open and vulnerable again to more abuse.

It happened to a friend of mine. She was a young girl helping out at church, the priest would ask her to stay behind whilst he gave her some 'faith' lessons. She didn't need any, she was the most devout girl I've ever known. Me and Custy didn't get on with her that much . But the priest would put his hand on her leg, brush up against her and make suggestive remarks to her. It would have taken a lot for this girl to report him, she told a nun at first who then reported it at senior level. The priest was moved to a different parish.

I'm all for second chances - but how can a church turn away one section of society and yet shelter another? It's like saying that being gay is more of a sin than abusing children.

I am ashamed to belong to a church that takes that stance.

From the BBC article:
Archbishop Nichols said: "He's [the Pope] not getting engaged in party politics... but he wants his reasoned voice - formed by the treasures of the Christian heritage which is deeply embedded in our culture - to be heard."

Reasoned voice?????????

The pope is an religious extremist and a nutter - that's part of the job description. Reasoning doesn't come into it.

And for DaftPunk to say 'The vast majority of Catholics do not think homosexuality is right....they will never change their minds.' - I simply do not believe that this is true.

Being Catholic does not automatically make you a bigot and it does not mean you automatically believe everything the Pope says. Just like being an Anglican does not mean you automatically agree with everything the Queen says.

The Pope is a figurehead, he has his own agenda (which I, as a Catholic, happen to find deeply offensive and dangerous), but he does not speak for all (or even the majority of) Catholics out there.

"I want to keep homosexuality out of my church and schools....That is my right, and the right of all catholics."

But most catholics don't feel like that, IME. Why should they have your views imposed upon them?

I know a make gay teacher in a catholic school. I suppose you think he should be sacked. He is a very good teacher though - I am sure that most of the catholic parents would want him to remain in his post.

DP you should not claim to speak for catholics, or even a majority of catholics in the UK. Your views are totally at odds with all the catholics I know.

'I am not a bigot by saying I don't accept homosexuality as normal/natural....they are my religious beliefs'

hmm, wouldn't that make you a religious bigot then dp?

*male not make

DP would get on very well with my mum.

But that's perhaps doing a disservice to DP.

Anyway I've got a headache now so I'm departing to get a chicken sarnie and fill out some job applications.

Then I might pick my nose and eat it for dessert.

Then later on I think I shall put my knickers on my head and sing happy birthday to myself before farting loudly and uploading the videoed farts onto youtube. If I'm in the mood I may even try to light some of them.

A day of fun!

Wow that was intellectually stimulating and relevant to the subject at hand wasn't it?

I have to say that Rhubarb speaks very eloquently on matters that are troubling me at the moment as well.

I have been brought up by Irish Catholic parents to love my faith and the messages of working to better yourself and helping others were drummed into me. I was also I believe lucky to have parents who allowed me to read, consider and make my mind up based on information and experiences gathered and that given new evidence it was ok to change your mind. Many others my own age weren't given that chance they were told this is what to believe and have left the Church in droves.

I want to ask though- how many of you know many 82 year olds who don't have those same beliefs? that homosexuality is wrong and disgusting? that women should be at home with children unless they can help it? that priests are at the top of church hierarchy and not to be challenged?That people from other cultures are not equal?
I had an interesting conversation with my dh's grandfather on Xmas day. He made a racist comment which I challenged. He honestly couldn't see what he had said that was wrong. Gramps is a year younger than the Pope.
Can we also try to remember this and also that he was probably chosen to be pope because he was so old and conservative in his views and as such wouldn't have enough time or inclination to cause ructions in the Vatican like John Paul II did.

Now I quite liked John Paul II. There was a lot more he could have done and didn't, but he did enough to cause ructions as you say, in the church. And yes, Benedict was chosen because he was seen as more able to drag the church back into the prehistoric times where they had the control of many people.

My post was badly worded,Rhubarb,I should probably have put "dealt with" in Yeah,right marks.There isn't any justification for what happened,I think what I was meaning to say was that you would expect the distant possibility of a spiritual approach from the church.That and actually caring about the children,like your friend.
And that is probably going to come out wrong as well....and miles down the thread from your post...

DP you really do spout the biggest load of bullshit I have ever heard.

'Lifestyle choice'. If that's the case then presumably your heterosexuality is also a life style choice?

And if giving a damn about how my fellow human beings are treated means I'm a liberal idiot then I'm proud to be a liberal idiot.

Bigots are not and never should be a protected species.

Oh,and happy birthday,Rhubarb,enjoy the rest of your day - sounds as if you have an exciting time planned!