The Pope is coming to UK to campaign against equality: Does this make him a respectable leader of faith or a bigot?

[Strix]

What do you think?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8492597.stm

I am very much liking "God For Aids."

For all those 'Catholics' who sincerely disagree with the gay bashing (and women bashing and child abusing) there IS something you personally can do to help stop it.

If (as we are told) the essential part of your belief is in Jesus and not in the pope and old testament bigotry then simply say "I am Christian. I am no longer Catholic"

You will still be the same person, the same Christian, but you no longer represent support for such a vile position.

If enough did that then the support for Christianity generally would stay the same. It would only be the bigotry that lost out.

As it stands each good thing that you do is like a vote for the Pope because people see you and think you are what the church is about.

Litchick, for me it's about my fundamental belief in God and the Church. And as Christ said, 'you are the Church.' So I belief in people and values. Most shared by those who would never consider themselves a Catholic but I do. It's more who I am than what I am.

FWIW, I think if Christ were here today, he would be appalled and disgusted at both the Pope and the whole Vatican set-up.

Rhubarb;

Child abuse obviously.

...but let's put this in perspective...it wasn't all catholic priests....most do a fantastic job and were just as disgusted as everyone else.

Pogles - IT'S MINE!!!!!

DP, I like you, you know that. But I also disagree with you on almost everything, that's why I like you so much!

But as one catholic to another. I see where you are coming from, but you have to understand the irony of the church's position. They will allow paedophile priests to carry practising, they don't ex-communicate them or report them to the authorities.

Yet they will refuse to give gay catholics communion and want to ban them from schools and churches.

Now even if you think homosexuality is wrong, which is your entitled opinion, you have to agree that the worst sin is to take away the innocence of a child. What was it that Jesus said about that? Something about that person going to the place where there is grinding of teeth - probably the Big Brother house.

There are worse sins that homosexuality that are committed behind closed doors by the very people who preach against homosexuality.

It may not be a trait you like in people. I don't like adulters personally, but I have no problem in them teaching my child because I send my child to school to be educated. Other peoples sexual practices don't come into it, I'm not interested.

The church is full of irony and bigots and hypocrisy. Sometimes you have to question what you believe and what you hold dear.

Look, I just get really fucked off that everyone elses rights are seen
as more as important than mine.

I want to keep homosexuality out of my church and schools....
That is my right, and the right of all catholics.

lol... that is like saying "Waaahh what about my rights? I want to eat Muslims in sandwiches and I'm not allowed "

Litchick - add to that list the belief that until babies are baptised they may well end up in hell due to original sin then you have listed all the reasons why I would never countenance returning to the Catholic church even if I were to consider needing organised religion in my life.

so glad I am not a catholic any more

I want to strap babies onto rockets and fire them into lebanon

No and I already said that you will get paedos everywhere, not just the church. But the church had that opportunity to show the world that it detested paedophilia, it had its chance to show that it will come down hard on those priest who abused their trust and standing. What is so scandalous is that although they are coming down hard (excuse the pun) on gay people, they failed to give victims of paedos the justice they needed to move on with their lives.

They failed their own people.

Now if you don't want your child near a gay person, then yes that is your right. You can choose home-schooling or a convent school. But I would suggest that your priority should be to keep your children from harm. That is everyone's right, to be able to send them to school and church in absolute safety. The church failed to provide this.

So they failed me and every other catholic their rights on that score.

Look, I just get really fucked off that everyone elses rights are seen as more as important than mine.

I want to keep homosexuality out of my church and schools....That is my right, and the right of all catholics.

But not all catholics agree with that, daftpunk, certainly ime anyway

You are asking for rights that discriminate against others. That is, imo, wrong.

Well Rhubarb, we also had the chance to show the world we detested National Socialism but we didn't do that either; To our eternal shame.

"BadgersPaws "So a celibate homosexual is, I believe, OK." Fair enough, but somehow I don't think thats what either the Pope or DaftPunk are saying that"

Well that does seem to be what the Pope is saying, as someone else has quoted from the BBC: "Religious leaders have voiced concern that the Equality Bill could force churches to employ sexually active gay people and transsexuals when hiring staff other than priests or ministers."

DaftPunk is picking the bits she wants from the Catholic faith to hang her beliefs upon and has constructed an elaborate fantasy of a hierarchy of "sex outside of marriage" sin and of natural urges being "choices" in order to try and justify it.

That such an elaborate fantasy is required to support such beliefs really should make it pretty clear how reasonable they actually are.

Don't listen to them Lenin

S'ok LeninGrad, my experience of a convent education is that your fantasies can remain firmly intact

Convents free of child abusers?

Children were not just harmed sexually, they were also physically and psychologically abused by men and women who obviously took the "suffer little children" quote the wrong way.

The church failed us big time DP. It's not gays I fear for my children, it's people who use the church to cover up their evil intentions and unfortunately the church makes it all too easy for people to do that.

Why do people have this idea that homosexuals cannot live their lives without constantly going on about their 'lifestyle choice'? Do you really believe homosexuals teaching in schools will constantly raise the issue and try (oh my god) to convert your child?