The Pope is coming to UK to campaign against equality: Does this make him a respectable leader of faith or a bigot?

[Strix]

What do you think?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8492597.stm

he's a bigot and homophobic.
how can someone who believes in god and that god created all men equally not believe in equality?

Great.

Yet again I am ashamed of my religion because of him.

Bigot.

The argument about the 'freedom of religious institutions' is entirely bogus. Institutions don't have freedoms, individuals do.

very true, AvengingGerbil.

Just replace the word "gay", or other offending sexuality, with the word "black" and then consider how you'd feel about what's being said.

For example we have Ann Widicombe: "If a faith teaches, as major faiths do, that being black is wrong, then quite clearly you cannot have somebody who is black actually occupying a very senior position."

Or we have the BBC quoting the Pope with: Pope Benedict XVI said the legislation "violates natural law" and could end the right of the Catholic Church to ban black people from senior positions.

Few would even try to claim that those statements are reasonable.

However for some reason it's OK to say that sort of thing about men that like men's bottoms, or women that like women's bottoms, yet surely that's as much a part of who we are as the colour of our skins.

fgs, its teh catholic church, run by men in frocks eying up the alter boys. he is a nutter. i wouldn't let him in teh country tbh

Besides aren't there more important issues for the Pope to be tackling?

For example Catholic schools won't support Red Nose Day because Comic Relief fund contraception in Africa to combat AIDS.

So refusing to support or condone contraception is more important than people's lives.

Not something I agree with, but if that's what you feel well fair enough.

However those same Catholic Schools are stuffed with Catholic families who are quite clearly using birth control. And using it not to avoid dying but to avoid overcrowding their 4x4s and being able to afford Caribbean holidays.

So if death is better than contraception why not tackle that first?

this is depressing as it makes all catholics look mad and obsessed with homosexuals when most of them just have a 'live and let live' attitude IMO (and a few far more active in fighting for equality)

it's depressing indeed

not sure why the state should finance it TBH

The pope doesn't seem to like women or gays.

Women are banned from office in his church and no one really objects, so it's already sexist, so I suppose he thinks homophobia is ok too.

But it is very ironic, considering the stuff going on in Ireland at the moment about the priest who is a serial abuser of choir boys, and how it was all hushed up.

So I think that makes him a hypocrite as well.

Bigot.

Well, a few hundred years ago, an important religious freedom in this country was the right to burn Catholics.

Perhaps His Holiness should be thankful that society moves on, instead of complaining about it.

I hope he is planning on bringing his pope mobile (or whatever it is)
Catholicism as fucked with a lot of peoples lives ime.

It's ridiculous. Most ordinary catholics (that I know anyway) are perfectly happy for people to be gay (or even female! gasp).

The proportion of people who worship in the catholic church and have a problem with gays is, I'm sure, the same as the proportion of people in the general population who do.

Mind you most ordinary catholics cheerfully ignore the advice on contraception etc.

The word from rome was the reason I decided to throw my lot in with the Anglicans. the vatican's views are utterly insupportable IMO.

"gays" god what do I sound like!

sorry

I'msonottelling: I remember when I was received into the Anglican church, all the conversations that I had with Anglicans who basically kept saying: "But the great thing is, we're much more right about things!"

Miggsie, he doesn't mind women if they stick to cleaning churches and doing the priests' washing.

Thing is though, you can't really say 'oh that pesky Pope, what's he like' and separate that in any meaningful way from the Catholic church and its teachings.

People do though cider - all the catholics that i know are catholic through family and culture - they haven't made an active choice to join IYSWIM, they just do it. Being ctaholic is part of what they are, their identity. (We're mainly talking irish and italian heritage).

So they do feel completely comfortable with separating the two.

The ones who can't separate them, and who sit down and have a good think about it, usually leave IME.

Horrible horrible bigot. This is why I won't have DD or our forthcoming DC christened as a Catholic.

disclaimer, I realise many Catholics - like DH and my MIL - aren't pope fans and are lovely people who think vile stuff like this is bonkers

This 20 million figure that's being bandied about - is that mostly for security and policing? Because I will, reluctantly, concede that it's the taxpayer's job to stop people getting shot on the streets of the UK. But if it's for larks' tongues and a retinue of altar boys, I'd be minded to sign the National Secular Society's petition.

"For example we have Ann Widicombe: "If a faith teaches, as major faiths do, that being black is wrong, then quite clearly you cannot have somebody who is black actually occupying a very senior position."

Or we have the BBC quoting the Pope with: Pope Benedict XVI said the legislation "violates natural law" and could end the right of the Catholic Church to ban black people from senior positions.

Few would even try to claim that those statements are reasonable."

Yes but we allow certain organisations to preclude on the basis of race or sex don't we?so why not sexuality? I'm not saying he's right and the catholic churchs stance on contraception and sexuality are two of the main reasons i renounced my faith but I do support their right to dictate the policies of their faith. Ditto the condom issue, I think it's disgusting and morally reprehensible that they refuse to condone contraception in African countries suffering hugely from aids, but i recognise that it is part of their religous belief system and as such they are entitled to their opinion and while we are entitled to criticise these stances I don't think we are entitled to demand change for as long as we allow other groups the freedom to decide their own policies and stances on similar issues.

I think that normally the pope's visit isn't an official "state visit" but this time it is (the Queen invited him I think)

Silly old queenie.

Bigot.

But that's hardly news, is it?