The Pope is coming to UK to campaign against equality: Does this make him a respectable leader of faith or a bigot?

[Strix]

What do you think?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8492597.stm

Flaunting homosexuality would be a lesbian teacher (for example)...talking to her pupils about her girlfriend/civil partnership/gay adoption....etc

Riven. The Pope may be preaching against certain laws, but he does not condone violence or terrorism or even mass protestation. He meets MPs and the Queen, states his concerns for the million or so catholics in this country and then leaves after doing other duties.

You may not agree with his opinions as I don't, but he does have every right to enter the country and state his beliefs.

As for the taxpayer picking up the bill, well my taxes also paid for the Iraq war, for MPs expenses, for Blair to go to other countries preaching how they should run their country, for the Queen and her entourage to go on round the world trips, etc. There are lots of things I resent paying for, the Pope is actually way down that list.

rhubabrb - but that is not what I said at all! PLEASE do not continue trying to turn me into a homophobe!!! My post said ''I SERIOUSLY DOUBT WHETHER MANY OF THEM WOULD DO THAT ANYWAY'' I agree completely that the bondage gear will not come out
Are you sure that a teacher can be asked about their sexuality at an interview for a teaching post in a catholic school? If that's the case I doubt it ever happens. As I mentioned, I know for a fact there are gay teachers working in catholic schools and no-one has a problem with it.

daftpunk - just how is that going to happen? Do you really think that homosexual people want to talk to their school pupils about their relationships?

Sex education isn't even allowed in catholic schools to that extent!

That is a very blinkered view. You could equally say that a divorced teacher would go on about contraception, adultery and sleeping around.

Most homosexual people just want to be accepted and not excluded, they don't want to talk about their private lives nor do they want to convert people to homosexuality. It's a part of their lives they just want to be able to get on with in peace.

You said that the bill would allow them to flaunt their sexuality. It would not. The bill disallows discrimination of people because of their sexuality.

If you do not want me to get the wrong end of the stick can you explain what you mean exactly and what you think this bill will allow.

Rhubarb says it so much better than me. What are you so afraid of? That children might grow up realising that homosexuals are just members of the human race like the rest of us?

In the fight between human rights (and I include employment rights here) and religious freedoms, I'll choose human rights every time.

If it comes down to "Treat all members of society with respect and equality" vs "Allow a small section of society to discriminate against another". Then I wonder which is the more Christian attitude?

I agree with what you're saying Rhubarb.
I think the Pope would agree as well! But perhaps there might be one or two people with a vendetta against the church who might choose to do those things and go for a job specifically for that reason. This bill would allow that. I AM NOT SAYING THAT ALL HOMOSEXUALS WOULD GO TO TEACH IN BONDAGE! Just that there are a few people out there who really do want to attack the Catholic faith (I think this thread proves that if nothing else!)

Rhubarb...how can someone be accepted if you don't know anything about them...?

If I was a lesbian I would want people to know...otherwise..what's the point..?

And Rhubarb, teachers do talk about their private lives to pupils...esp in secondary school...my dd knows her teachers are married and have children....

I wouldn't deliberately talk about it...but if I had a girlfriend I wouldn't want to pretend she didn't exist iykwim...

I never discussed my sexuality with my students in the dozen years I taught. My students were very surprised when they came back to school after the summer and found me pregnant. I think they thought I was a lesbian because I was over 26 and not married

Would you also tell people if you liked swinging? Would you tell a classroom full of children?

You've have to be pretty warped if you went through the job process for teaching just to get at the catholic church. There are easier ways to get at the church.

It is a rule of teaching that you do not talk about inappropriate topics. So for instance whilst I worked at a secondary school a TA was reprimanded for making an inappropriate comment about her own sex life to a pupil. That rule would not change, in catholic schools or elsewhere. The school is a place of education not a chatroom.

All this talk of homosexual teachers discussing gay sex with pupils is just tosh. It doesn't happen now and wouldn't happen then.

Just wondering, if you think that all racists, or sexists, or people who object to discrimination against people with disabilities, are fuckwitted wankers, does that make you a proper bigot? Is it bigotry to despise an opinion whoever holds it, or not?

DP I was told when I was employed by the school not to talk to the pupils about any aspect of my personal life. That was to protect me against the little gits from using info about me to get at me, which they did when they saw me dropping my then 4yo son off at nursery.

And so what if they mention their partner anyway? It's not as if the kids wouldn't have heard about gay people by then, most of them totally and utterly accept it. A lesson we could well to learn ourselves.

It is bigoted to hold a belief that a certain group of people, because of their religion, are all the same and therefore make a generalised sweeping statement about them.

To criticise ONE opinion is fine. To call all catholics bigots is bigoted in itself.

Digression

Um, I'm in the middle of cooking supper
but if any one wants to investigate the real meat of the issue here, ie the stance of the Catholic church (which I am not defending in this instance) and the European Directive,

here are some interesting links

Freddo, I think you are mistaking people on mumsnet being horrified at the catholic church's official line on homosexuality with attacking Catholics in general. There are plenty of Catholics on here who have expressed moral repugnance at the Church's stance in this respect.

On a personal level, I'm not anti-Catholic. A Catholic upbringing and education made me the athiest I am today I was taught by some truly inspiring nuns, early feminists in their own right. Many of my family are still practising Catholics. More still have left in response to the emerging evidence of the Catholic heirachy's unwillingness to face up to the genocide in Africa and other nations that they are perpetuating in the name of dogma (AIDS and condoms), the paedophile priest fiasco and the entrenced attitudes that discriminate against women and homosexuals.

Interesting links.....

Drat - must leave this thread and prevent fish from overcooking.

Agree with Rhubarb and Slug.

Well why is the bill needed at all then? I really don't see how it will change anything!

And Riven I am not worried about my children 'turning gay' because of their bondaged teacher It's just that I believe (and want) the catholic school I send them to to be 'catholic' and promote catholic views (Now I know everyone is going to say those views are homophobic and we are going to go around in the same circle again... so I'm off to make the childrens' tea!!)

Lenin I would not say that was flaunting at all. Flaunting would be volunteering information without being asked, or trying to provoke certain kinds of questions which might have controversial answers. In the ordinary course of school life there would be no need at all for a teacher to discuss their sexual orientation.