The Pope is coming to UK to campaign against equality: Does this make him a respectable leader of faith or a bigot?

[Strix]

What do you think?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8492597.stm

To children I'd say 'None of your business'! (whether I was gay or straight married or unmarried). I am in fact a teacher (although on long term maternity leave) and believe the less personal info you give them the better . Or you could equally say 'I'm in a relationship' and leave it there.

"neither am I comfortable with legislation that seeks to force religious groups to act contrary to deeply held beliefs"

The way I see it is that if a new law comes into force then it might well bother religious groups, but it might also bother lots of individuals who have their own opinions on how things are done.

Those individuals and those groups are able to keep their opinions, but are not allowed to act on them. That's how it works when you are part of a country. The only alternative if the individual or group can't bear to obey that law is to leave and find some other country with different laws.

In addition, while those groups or individuals are legally able to keep their views they are not protected from the scorn of those who feel those views are outdated/immoral.

FreddoBaggyMac, are any of the teachers you know addressed as 'Mrs' and if so do you find it disturbing that this reveals they are married to a man?

Leningrad;

Of course you shouldn't deny who you are...and I'm sure you don't....but the whole point of the equality bill would mean you could talk openly about your life within a catholic setting....which would make some catholics feel uncomfortable.

The reason I send my dc to catholic schools is because I want them taught in a catholic environment...what is wrong with that..?

I like my life..I like living by "rules"...religion gives my life structure and meaning...I don't want that to change.

religious people are usually the happiest you know, their dc are often better behaved, religious schools are better.....(which is why everyone wants to get into them)...

Catholics aren't demanding people....we just want to "keep the faith"

Daftpunk, I get what you are saying, but see my post above about finding a country with laws that you like.

I don't mean that in a nasty way (not to you anyway), but it's the way it is. There was a time when you could choose not to belong to a country/state. Back when most of the world was empty you could wonder off and live the way you wanted to. Now wherever you are you must live within the laws/morals of the country you are in. This country/state has decided that discrimination is immoral and made it illegal so that's the end of it.

Asking to be exempt from ANY law undermines all of the laws.

Onagar, the mrs/ miss thing does not bother me in the slightest. Teachers are there to teach and especially with the way the profession is now their personal selves just don't enter into it. I had a teacher at my catholic secondary school who was a 'miss' and there was some speculation that she was a lesbian (I know for a fact now that she was). She was a great teacher and very popular. She also attended church every Sunday. No-one ever asked her outright about her sexuality - even now that would still be considered a bit rude wouldn't it?
She was a really good catholic teacher, didn't let her personal life interfere with the job she was supposed to be doing.

Also, to those who say catholic schools don't educate children about the real world enough (much earlier posting that I've just thought about!), I'd respond that the real world provides them with enough education to balance it out fairly quickly! We are a pretty atheist country so i need to send my children to a fairly orthodox catholic school if I want religion to even get a look in!
Also in response to comments about tax payers money being used to fund the pope's visit, catholic taxpayers money is used to fund abortions on the NHS, so perhaps it just evens things out a bit...

Daftpunk - you mean letting gays as teachers into a catholic school - well, yes, as from what I understand catholic schools are part funded by the state then they should ABSOLUTELY NOT be able to discriminate when recruiting staff.

Are state funded religious schools exempt from current equality legislation - if so - I'm bloody furious.

People who talk about gay people 'flaunting' their non-heterosexuality, oh now there's another good stupidity-indicator. Because what they mean is 'It's so awful when gay people refuse to pretend that they don't exist, and actually demand to behave like heterosexuals and, you know, give their spouse a kiss in the street or, when asked say No, S/he is not my sibling or friend, s/he is my spouse.'
Some people are gay. Get over it. IF you can't get over it, you're a fucking idiot and probably sexually dysfunctional.

So it's not flaunting to let the kids know that a woman has a husband. That's about what I thought.

No Onagar. Neither is it flaunting to let kids know that she hasn't a husband. And really - do kids care??

giveitago...

That's not what I said....I'm sure there are 1000's of gay teachers teaching in catholic schools....they just keep quiet about it.

So it's equally fine if she lets them know she has a female partner or if a male teacher mentions in passing (not as part of a lecture on it) that he has a male partner.

how would one discuss homosexuality in a Catholic environment

SGB;

A fucking idiot....yep, I can be sometimes...

Sexually dysfunctional... matter of opinion I guess..?

I don't care what homosexuals do...I don't want them banned or hidden away...I just don't want my priest telling me he's gay and the head teacher of my dc catholic school showing me pictures of her civil partnership.....I'm afraid I would laugh...and that would embarrass us both.

No onagar, not in a Catholic school. It's the difference between implied and explicit information.
I can see that we are going to get nowhere going along this route, we're going round in circles! just reread the thread from page 10 as it will save us all a lot of energy!

My belief is that the bill will make it fine for homosexuality to be 'flaunted' (not a wonderful word to use I admit, but I can't think of a better one) in catholic schools. Catholic teaching is that homosexual acts are wrong. I send my children to a catholic school in the hope that they will get at least some catholic teaching (they get enough ''real life'' from everywhere else). In the environment of the catholic school, if my child's teacher is gay I would prefer that they did not make any sort of issue about it. In fact I don't think any teacher in a catholic school should make any issue of their sexuality. I don't think this impinges on their rights, and if they have that much of a problem with it why not just get a job in a non-catholic school? Things seem to work perfectly well along those lines at the moment. I don't know of any catholic teachers who feel sexually oppressed by what they can/ can't say in the classroom anyway!

Are state funded religious schools exempt from current equality legislation - if so - I'm bloody furious.

yes, they can discriminate on religious grounds.

haha, I agree completely Daftpunk

Not in circles at all. I was just clarifying that it's not really about gay people shouting out details of their sex lives, but the mere fact that they are gay and that the kids might find out which is so disturbing.

Well, the reason it's referred to as 'partnership' rather than 'marriage' as it is in some states in the US, is due to the government under Tony Blair making a concession to the Church leaders who objected to the term (as well as substance) of 'gay marriage.'

But DaftPunk, I would be shocked if the local priest expressed himself as being hetrosexual or expressed any sexuality. Aren't they supposed to be celibate anyway?

Look, any teacher who 'flaunts' their sexuality whatever it may be is committing professional misconduct. So can we put that red herring outside?

Various people have said they know of quietly gay teachers in catholic schools. Thats fine. Not all catholic schools have homophobic heads and governors. But I'll bet some do. That was the situation this amendment was surely meant to address.

The pope complains about " unjust limitations on the freedom of religious communities"

What freedom is being impinged on precisely? No one is being forced to participate in homosexuality. No one is barred from saying if they think it wrong. You still have perfect religious freedom to believe whatever you want. All that was intended was to stop impingement on someone elses employment rights.

Onagar did you read my previous post about my own teacher who was gay? I have absolutely no problem with that BECAUSE she didn't shout out details about her sex life. Teachers simply should not be discussing such matters with their pupils IMO. There would never have been any reason for her to mention her female partner 'in passing' just as i would never mention my husband to children in my class, there's not enough time with all the stuff you have to fit in anyway!!
If a married gay woman wanted to call herself 'Mrs' x I would have no problem with it. If she wanted to call herself 'Miss X who has a lesbian partner' (not very likely I know ) I would.

I suppose what we are really debating here is whether we approve of catholic schools, given that they are partly state funded. If a school is catholic it follows that it is going to want to promote catholic values - surely the pope of all people is allowed to stand up for that arguement?
Anyway, really must go as I'm desperately behind with everything now, children unwashed and house a tip... and I vowed this wouldn't happen again today

great post smallwhitecat

ilovemydog...

You assume your priest isn't sexual in anyway tbh...almost like they're above all that ....sexless if you like..

Anyway...I'm outta here

Nice meeting you FBM.....hope we meet up again soon....