Faith schools should say homosexuality is normal..

[daftpunk]

Why can't people just leave us alone

DP this is not on it really isn't.

You know you are going to offend and hurt a lot of people by posting shite like this. And I have seen you on another thread having a good old debate with Lenin about homosexuality, and how patient she was with you prejudices etc. And what a lovely MNer Lenin obviously is. And you know that she and opther MN lesbians will see this thread, and it is just another fucking bit of prejudice and nastiness which they have to deal with.

And all this normal bloody wordplay. It is normal. Their sexuality is normal for gays/lesbians. As it should be normal for everybody else to accept (and embrace) this.

Please don't fudhe the argument by saying well it's not statistically normal.

Also, not really sure if I'm overanalysing, as the meaning of the word "normal" is pretty central to this dispute.

However I have no idea if there would be any objection to using the word "natural".

Maybe I should ask dp. Or maybe not.

Getorf why aren't people allowed to be neutral? I'm neutral. Aren't most people? Embracing what? Don't care.

Perhaps we should adjourn to pedants' corner?

Ok but only if I'm allowed to bring "gay" and "pride" as well.

i thnk that DP's main argument is not that she thinks homosexuality is bad (although i do understand she doesn't like the idea as it is considered a sin within her faith - the same as it would be in a great many other religions) but that she doesn't feel government should have the right to instruct faith schools to include such lessons within the curriculum. is that right?

Whilst i understand that most faith schools are independant, they do receive a large amount of government funding and so therefore they do need to follow the same guidelines as your average comp. imho.

I can't see why there should be a problem with explaining what homosexuality means and a brief discusssion to explain why a child may have feelings for a person of the same sex and that it is ok to do so.

unless you feel this is wrong DP? in which case i cannot see how you can believe that you really would continue to love and support any child of yours if they were to grow up gay

Come to think of it, we have it easy now. All I have to do is say "DC, the school may teach , but as Catholics we believe ." Four-hundred years ago I would have been trying to explain why Daddy got drawn and quartered for having a Priest in the shed.

Try putting things in an historical context some time.

I thought it was just MY Daddy who kept a priest in the shed

Actually, this has become about Catholics (presumably because DP steered it that way in the first few posts), but it's not all about them... the Independent report quoted an 'unnamed senior Anglican bishop' as saying,

?I think this will go down badly even among the not overtly evangelical. Instituting something that must be taught, come what may, is frighteningly fascist.? (I presume he said something similar when Section 28 was introduced )

And I can't see Islamic faith schools being too hot on this either.

It's not about "playing with words".

If someone makes a statement about a Law that would like to implement, which would affect all of our lives, then it's pretty important to understand exactly what they intend.

I don't accept that homosexuality is "normal" in the sense of it being "the norm". It patently isn't.

I accept that it is "normal" as in "occurring naturally".

If Clegg had phrased his pronouncement differently, I would have had no objections.

Still, all very hypothetical... Clegg's even less popular than Brown.

Looking back 400 odd years to what one lot of christians did to the other lot, depending who happened to be in power at the time, just brings out my desire for as much secularisation as possible.

I don't think anyone seriously thinks that Clegg is proclaiming that gay relations are the statistical median for sexual relations

Not even in the Liberal Democrat party

getorf I'd disagree with you there. This is a discussion forum and no one has a right to not be offended. Daftpunk posted a relevant news story in the News section of this board to be discussed. It would be a pretty pointless discussion if a hugely relevant opinion to the debate was not to be brought up and only those that agreed with homosexuality and the way it is thought were allowed to post or bring it up.

@morningpaper. Great End Of Year Round-up, btw, I really enjoyed it.

i disagree WRT most catholics too.

I do not defer sexual educatin to the edcation system. It is MY MY flippin' job to teach MY flippin' kids about sex and sexual relationships.

what i consider 'normal' my kids will consider 'normal' as parents have the biggest influence.

so no doubt DPs kids will still consider homosexuality to be wrong becuase their parents think so regardless of what school teaches.

WRT school teaching about sex. it should not be gender specific - unless talking about pregnancy obv. the same rules more or less apply regarding safe sex ( yes us catholics do educate in this regard) loving relationships etc.

there is no need to have a curriculum split into homosexuality and hetrosexuality imo

That's the problem MQ...you are allowed to have an opinion, but only if it's the "right" opinion.

Anyone who says anything that isn't 100% positive about homosexuality or immigration, is obviously a tolling knob....(as I have charmingly been called today)

i think as a raging catholic, that you should consider WWJD?

would he promote homophobia or any negative tendancies towards ...well anyone? erm...no.

so saying " im a catholic and we are against homophobia is totally against the teachings of Jesus as far as i am concerned. the Jesus that we know about consider him on earth today - would he really act as you are acting.

DP, you were just calling for people to be banned for having an adverse opinion on the pope, so I don't really think you have a leg to stand on there.

Mayor - fair enough, I appreciate what you say. But I think what is getting on my nerves is DP's disingenuousness 'i am only having a debate' as i truly believe she is on the wind up sometimes.

Loads of my family are gay, as well, so I cannot feel dispassionate about some of the statements here, same as some people feel strongly about priest holes in the 16thC.

No way do I want anyone banned...I think it's great that we have diversity on here...I would never report anyone for saying anything about the pope, I'm just getting a bit tired of being called a troll and of people wanting me banned...it's all a bit childish isn't it.

Custy - yes, DP's kids will probably grow up considering homosexuality wrong - but it would be nice if someone in their formative years exposed them to the idea that being gay isn't so horrendous after all.
Particularly if they turn out to be gay.

You know DP, it's those immigrants that are keeping the catholic church alive in this country! You should be welcoming them with open arms.

welli have met DP and can assure you that she certainly isn't a troll.

as controversial as she seems she really does believe every word she posts here. she is aware that her views are not the mainstream and that she will get flamed each and every time she posts but she is passionate about what she feels is right. for that i have the utmost respect for her.

her views are widely considered outdated and well, wrong. but she isn't the only one to hold them, she is just the only one brave enough to express them.

i am astounded that DP has yet to be banned but i am glad she hasn't. I do not share her views on most things but I think its safe to say i dont share the same views as many of the more moderate posters here either, thank god.

stop attacking DP and discuss the actual topic of debate. it is one worthy of conversation

Of course DP isn't a troll. They are people pretending to be something they aren't, luring you in. DP is quite consistent - on seeing her name as OP you know exactly whats on the agenda and can hide the thread if you want.

And she certainly never should be banned as on many subjects she is the diversity.

Agree MP - our school would be pretty empty if if all the children whose parents/grandparents had immigrated here were to leave (including mine). Apart from various members of the upper classes surely most Catholics in Britain are descended from immigrants?