Proposed march through Wooton Bassett

[FrozenNorth]

Here

Initially saw this on the BBC but this link gives a bit more detail. I support everyone's right to free speech but ... dear goodness, this seems to be exceptionally bad taste. My DH is an army doctor and, during his time in a free Afgan clinic for civilians run by the army, saved many Afgan lives. He's going out there again in January. I can imagine I'd be incredibly distressed if he'd lost his life in the conflict and somebody wrote to me explaining what he'd 'really' died for. Ugh. Maybe it's just my personal bias, but I can't help feel that the proposed march is sited to cause maximum potential for violent conflict and to cause maximum hurt to those who are bereaved.

Its disgusting WB should not be used as a political statement. It has become a moving and current Cenotaph to our fallen troops. We would be motified if they protested on the 11/11 at war memorials. I feel I have a right to comment as a serving officers wife. Why can't some places be left sacred just for our troops. God knows there is little else left to them.

are they the lot that marched at luton?

from their webpage

"" A platform for the global front Al-Muhajiroun, Islam4UK has been established by sincere Muslims as a platform to propagate the supreme Islamic ideology within the United Kingdom as a divine alternative to man-made law. ""

If you've ever watched the hearses go through WB Night, then you will have seen the relatives of the dead there as well as the townspeople, and service personnel who may have known those in the coffins. It is NOT a politicisation of the dead, as the politicians thankfully stay well away.

I totally agree with Frozen North; this is to cause upset to the bereaved families and to provoke a response.

Islam4Uk are the nutters (and I use the word advisedly) who want the UK to be governed by Shari'ah law.

Nighbynight - There are usually lots of family members and friends who go to WB too, in order to show their support and respect for their loved ones. I know that is the reason we have been. It is like in the past when a funeral procession went past people used to stop and rmove their hats as a sign of respect. Many of those who live around WB are military families.

herbie, its political if you only turn out for one side.

Feel sure that we can rely on the govt to keep Islam4UK in check, though.

oops and scary, would you turn out for a funeral for afghans and british dead together though?

Now as much as I agree with free speech, this is discusting!
It should not be allowed to take place (but in this kiss ares country it will be)

Welltheyc an propagate Islam allthey wish, but I suppose what they mean is to enforce it,otehrwise they'd wouldn't be an extreme group, just a preaching one (with which I have no issues).

I don't think WB is political;in these smallareasalmost everyone will ahve some link with the forces- eitherfriends,family, civvie staff etc. You only have tolook at the way localities collapse when a base pulls out to see the extent lives become interwoven.When someone dies in action itisn'tjust about that one person but everybody there still and everybody who has lost anyone to the demon ofwar.

They quite often have people at WB on local TV (yes I know, not reliable but short of a clipboard and a trip over...) and so often they will say they don't support the war, but.... . I get the impression that if there was an alternative chance many would also pay respects to other people- indeed if onewas very local I would I think.

Indeed I think the key thing about WB has been its alck of politicisation.

I also think for many people the dead from other countries are remembered as part of it all: I know they are for many in remembrance day services, old soldiers arenot naive about the reality of their success and survival and many feelintensely sadabout the costs.

Nighbynight - I went to welcome home a friend's son and show our respect for him. If an Afghan funeral was being held I would not turn up just for the sake of turning up but would show my respect if it passed me by.

The other thing ofcourse is that it is a genuine funeral,and not a protest

They aretwovery different beasties surely?

I would show respect to any eharse that passed me by,in a quiet way. I think most do.

I agree with Peachy - These people turn out for REAL people being returned home not for empty coffins being used to protest about the war, if there was a British protest to the war with fake coffins there is no doubt there would be the same level of disgust.

in one of those odd moments, looking through my old email, i found an email forward demanding help on behalf of the people of Afghanistan against the shocking repression of the Taliban - some time in 1998-9. I got the same email twice from two different people (both amnesty-international types)

one of those people recently emailed me a forwards demanding an end to the war in Afghanistan....

now the main question in my mind about that particular situation is to do with winnability - not whether the cause is just. The taliban are/were reprehensible scum.

the situation existing before UK/ US intervention could not really be described as peacful - what kind of peace is it where the population lives in fear?

now, i don't think us liberal minded peace loving types need to side with nutjobs merely because we don't like war.

peace is much more than the absence of war.

Edgar you just summed up my feelings so well. I have a real dislike of the taleban- and ousting them would be apositive for many but (aprt from big important discussions on whether it is our role to do so.....) it is unwinnabl;e,asconflict in Afghanistan historically becomes, and the longer we stay there the more damage we will do tolives as a result.

Any lives, who ever and from wherever.

Look at what is happening in Pakistan now they are taking on the Taleban. It'snot about faith, but extremism, which is nasty in the name of any God or belief.

I didn't want us to go in and wish we never had done, but all wecan either do is clear out now or keep dragging on a hopeless and fatal cause.

I live in WB, and attend the repats regularly - they are not political. True, they do get politicised by the media and by politicians, which makes me .

We turn out simply to recognise the sacrifice made by young men (often boys) in our name - that doesn't mean we agree with the war, or that we don't think about the Afghan victims of the conflict either. The sight of a coffin (or 6) going past you while you do your weekly shop is sobering and makes the conflict happening thousands of miles away very very real. It is immensely humbling and extremely sad; and taking a few minutes to pay respect to the victims as they pass you on their final journey is quite honestly the least anyone would do. The crowd is genuinely made up of townspeople, victim's relatives (though this is fairly recent) and some people do travel to WB especially (i only know this because it's impossible to park on the day of a repatriation).

I cannot see that Islam4UK would get permission to march in WB; and the whole thing is probably designed to get maximum publicity without anything actually happening - and it looks like they're succeeding. They look like a hideous outfit to me with dubious aims... the sooner we stop giving them airtime the better.

NotA, don't WB council actively fight against any politicisation that peopletry?S ure I saw that on the news or something?

well, herbie, a funeral for all victims would be a start, no?

I am afraid that the way the WB events are reported does make them look like a declaration of support for the war by loyal subjects. Maybe the people involved themselves, if they feel misrepresented, could organise their own tribute to all victims?

Peachy - you are so right about history etc. Honestly, it surprised me that that particular lesson was forgotten. (Its probably just a matter of time before someone tries to invade Russia again.)

Nighby - the fact is are these are our men returning home to our country and we can show them the respect they deserve as we feel is right. It is not the place of WB to organise a tribute to all victims as they are simply bystanders showing their respect as hearses bearing bodies of young me pass through their town. No politics, no request for the telly to be there, just plain simple respect.

I think a memorial service for all would be an appropriate thing but funerals are a chance for families to say goodbye to their loved ones in person.

It is not a declaration of support for the war, but respect for and an acknowledgement of the job done by HM Forces. It is possible to support the service personnel there, but not the war.

WB is not a funeral, it is the hearses passing through en route to the hospital where the Post Mortems take place before the bodies are released for burial. I stand still and bow my head whenever a hearse passes me by wherever I am. This is all that is happening there. 'No man is an island' etc.

As to turning out for a funeral, I only attend funerals of people I know. If I knew an Afghani who had been killed, being female, I probably would not attend the funeral as women don't tend to, but I would mourn if asked. I would attend the funeral of anyone I knew from HM Forces who had been killed out there.

Yes peachy, the town council do try and stop any politicisation of it; but unfortunately repatriation days in WB have become a bit of a media circus - the high street is littered with outside broadcast vans, journos everywhere... and the media often use WB repatriations to give the 'human angle' to political stories - i.e. lack of resources/increase in troop numbers/change in strategy etc etc. The town council aren't vocal enough imo about this... but journos do struggle to find local people to talk to as many of us refuse to talk to the press due to the political nature of the broadcasts.

Maybe you're right nighby - perhaps we should organise a tribute to all victims... but then doesn't that make it even more political? Particularly as we are WB and what that has come to mean.

Disgusting as an ex-Swindon person (nearest big town) and with lots of friends in the forces I'm really not happy about it in very sick taste

NASW, it would be humanitarian, though, and middle of the road. Meant to say memorial service, not funeral, btw.
I do think it would be a very nice gesture that would reach out to many people in the community - but somehow I dont think the british establishment is ready for such a step yet.