Proposed march through Wooton Bassett

[FrozenNorth]

Here

Initially saw this on the BBC but this link gives a bit more detail. I support everyone's right to free speech but ... dear goodness, this seems to be exceptionally bad taste. My DH is an army doctor and, during his time in a free Afgan clinic for civilians run by the army, saved many Afgan lives. He's going out there again in January. I can imagine I'd be incredibly distressed if he'd lost his life in the conflict and somebody wrote to me explaining what he'd 'really' died for. Ugh. Maybe it's just my personal bias, but I can't help feel that the proposed march is sited to cause maximum potential for violent conflict and to cause maximum hurt to those who are bereaved.

DP you know i love you you also know that i oppose much of what you say.
But i also do think that sometimes there is some truth in what you try and get across to people.

Atlantis i agree with you that the UK needs to stop being so scared to be considered racist simply because we do not agree with the behaviour of certain extremist organisations.

This march is a disgusting display of "fuck you western world we will do what we like where we like and there's nothing you can do about it because your too afraid of being considered a BNP supporter"

I do not support the BNP and believe that any "normal" person that is considering voting for them should do a lot more reading outtside of the pages of the DM, but i CAN understand why the initial thought would enter their heads.

I think that one difference between Islam4UK and the BNP is that Islam4UK is obviously an extremist organisation and that it's not really engaged in politics within the UK.

On the other hand the BNP tries to pretend that it's not extremist and is involved in the political process.

The BNP, it's leaders and it's members also have a history of coming out with obviously inaccurate statements, for example who or what is "British" and denial of historical facts, that people gets quite annoyed about.

Islam4UKs beliefs are pretty offensive to most people but are not quite so obviously ignorant, rather they are just beliefs.

So people tend to react rather passionately to the BNP. Especially given European history.

Personally I believe that the anti-fascist protests go too far and that the BNP should be seen and heard. However as said I can see why they provoke such a reaction.

I think you're wrong to want to "deport" someone who is British. Are you reading 'racist' into that? Because that isn't what I said. I think your ideas about race are certainly a bit muddled though.

I think I do have a more visceral response to the BNP than to Islamic extremists, while strongly disagreeing with both, because the BNP would claim to be speaking for me, and emphatically are not, while Islam4UK would make no such claim.

"Islam4UKs beliefs are pretty offensive to most people but are not quite so obviously ignorant, rather they are just beliefs."

Like the "belief" that referes to the 9/11 hijackers as "the magnificent 19"?
Or the warnings that the West will continue to suffer similar attacks, if it does not change its policies?
Or statements like "The last hour will not ome until the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill the Jews."?

They sure give Nick Griffin a run for his money when it comes to making offensive statements. Still, as long as they're just "beliefs", no worries, huh?

"the BNP would claim to be speaking for me, and emphatically are not, while Islam4UK would make no such claim."

True. Islam4Uk would consider you an infidel and, therefore, beneath contempt.

"We come here to civilise people, get them to come out of the darkness and injustice into the beauty of Islam," [Choudary] told reporters...Britons were "filthy" and had lessons to learn from history.

Here.

"...i'm afraid you are a hero of mine...."

wow, no pressure there Daftpunk. That's a big pedastool to fall from.

To not get too political, I wish people didn't feel the need to vote for the BNP and I have leanings towards UKIP (out of the EU) myself, but I have to remind myself that a vote for a minor party is a vote for Labour and I do not want to see Labour have another 5 years of government.

TFM,

"I think you're wrong to want to "deport" someone who is British."

I'm not sure which posts leant towards the 'oh lets just deport every muslim.. blah..blah' to be honest without looking back and I have no problem with anyone thinking I am wrong on any point, I do have a problem with people trying to shut down a debate with the racist slur.

"True. Islam4Uk would consider you an infidel and, therefore, beneath contempt. "

Very good point. The BNP only want to 'deport' people, muslim extremists like to behead people instead, I know if push came to shove which side I would be on.

I didn't say that in support of them lilybug. I meant it as I wrote it. They do not claim to speak for me. That doesn't make what they say any more acceptable.

the difference between the BNP and ISLAM4UK is that the BNP, whatever YOU feel about them are democratically elected.

They have reached their position in the european parliament by being elected. they have a legal and moral right to spout their offensive shite. I personally believe that if they were given more opportunities to speak then there would be far less "normal" people willing to voite for them as they would see them for what they are.

Islam$uk however are nothing more than a bunch of nutjobs shouting loudly and offensivly. and yet they are being allowed far more freedoms than the BNP.
sorry but its no wonder there are people that fall for Nick Griffins rantings when things like this are allowed

"They sure give Nick Griffin a run for his money when it comes to making offensive statements. Still, as long as they're just "beliefs", no worries, huh?"

I was thinking more of the things that I've heard from a very casual exposure to Islam4UK such as the claims that Islam is the only solution to problems like societal break down or binge drinking and that we should have Sharia law.

I'll have a look into them some more....

However even those examples, while very offensive, are opinions and aren't quite the same as denying the facts of events such as WW2 that factor in many peoples family histories or trying to claim a basis for "Brisishness" that is obviously nonsense and makes most people non-British.

So that, to me, is why people react more passionately to the BNP.

If push came to shove you know which side you'd be on ?

Looking at things as a straight fight between one bunch of extremists and another is unnecessary isn't it? I'd be on neither side, along with the vast majority of the population who are considerably more moderate than either of these two groups.

They had a legal and moral right before they were elected though surely Mamazon? Because you can't be elected without making a bit of noise. Every group with elected representation had to start somewhere.

It is abhorrent that Islam4uk are evn thinking of this march, I agree.

And yes, as has been said it will add fuel to the BNP's fire, their rascist and hideous views will appear to have been vindicated by some.

We just have to remember that just as not every white Briton supports the BNP, not every Muslim supports the likes of Islam4uk.

And the Government has to be tougher with extremists who live here and spread hatred like this in order to support and protect all of us.

"Looking at things as a straight fight between one bunch of extremists and another is unnecessary isn't it? I'd be on neither side, along with the vast majority of the population who are considerably more moderate than either of these two groups."

I said when push came to shove, ie; if it were just a straight choice between either group, if civil war were to break out tomorrow and you had no choice but to take up a side and the fight, would you want your family living under sharia law and Islam's rules? I certainly wouldn't.

the problem is though that some people are made so angry by one set of extremists they go and join the other extreme.
but then thankfully the vast majority of us will here two sets of the extreme and are made gratefull for the middle ground.

however dire the labour/tory bunch are they do seem oh so much more reasonable after a few moments spent reading anything by choudary/griffin

You never disappoint me atlantis....it's great to have posters like you on MN. You, scarletlilybug, thesherikingharpy.... you all bring some much needed balance...

I know i'm out on my own politically on here, ..but I feel so strongly that BNP supporters should be allowed to speak and be heard, I have had a very hard time on MN because of this, but it's all worth it, because slowly....very slowly, people might accept that the vast majority of BNP voters are normal people who are just sick of these muslim extremists living here...something has to be done, and tbh...I doubt the tories will do much.

I cannot conceive of a situation where I would support either 'side' TBH. And I just don't understand how anyone can be so angered by one extreme they join the other. Not if they have given the matter any thought at all. There are never only teo sides to something like this.

Well, I certainly don't think the BNP should be silenced DP. I think they are entitled to express their opinions, and everyone else is entitled to express their opinions on those opinions. Do you think any extremist groups should be silenced BTW?

" because slowly....very slowly, people might accept that the vast majority of BNP voters are normal people"

Yes they are and I think that it's not only the extremist groups who have helped swell the BNP ranks of normal people but also Labours policy on immigration, when the BNP said British jobs for British workers I think they hit a very deep vein with a lot of people, especially in the recession when we are still allowing people from other counctries to come in and work contracts at such places as the oil refineries when we have the skilled labour here to do it.

Other countries such as New Zealand have implemented the policy that the first choice should be from people already based in New Zealand and 'preferably' New Zealanders rather than recent immigrants, I see no problem with this.

DP i absolutly agree with you that the BNP should be allowed to speak.

I also agree that there are a greatnumber of people who have been - i want to say forced but i know i'll get (rightly) flamed, i just can't think of the right words- to vote BNP because they feel that they have been let down by the polictical elite.

the daily mail sell's a great deal of papers to people who really do belive what they read.

it is arrogant and pig headed of the main parties to ignore the thoughts and opinions of those people simply because they consider them ill informed.

they may not express it very well but i think they share the same concerns as most of us.

respect for differing opinions, tolerance and freedom of speech are core british values. If the majority government acts contrary to this because of a bunch of loons, Britain loses far more than it does by tolerating such bigots.

Every time another piece of legislation comes out to give the appearance that the government is doing 'something' about terrorism, we all lose our rights, not just those said laws are intended to target.

also i think The Bnp and their ilk may as well be recruiting sergeants for these extremist groups, as they display what is worst about the UK.

This thread is going so fast! For safety ground this march should not be allowed, but I don't particularly think that the BNP should be a solution.

There are foreigners who live peacefully here, the BNP will target any foreigner in the UK, any individual who doesn't look British ( chinese, polish, white mediteraneans...