Proposed march through Wooton Bassett

[FrozenNorth]

Here

Initially saw this on the BBC but this link gives a bit more detail. I support everyone's right to free speech but ... dear goodness, this seems to be exceptionally bad taste. My DH is an army doctor and, during his time in a free Afgan clinic for civilians run by the army, saved many Afgan lives. He's going out there again in January. I can imagine I'd be incredibly distressed if he'd lost his life in the conflict and somebody wrote to me explaining what he'd 'really' died for. Ugh. Maybe it's just my personal bias, but I can't help feel that the proposed march is sited to cause maximum potential for violent conflict and to cause maximum hurt to those who are bereaved.

Riven;

I think it's good that you as a muslim, will carry on talking to me, a BNP supporter...a few posters have given up on me...apparently i've "crossed the line", not really sure what line but I don't waste my time worry about it..

You never say that to me...

"Holocaust deniers and racists don't change far as I can tell"

Sometimes they do.....

David Irving did admit that up to four million Jews did die in the holocaust after originally denying even that.

However in a somewhat funny twist Nick Griffin then criticized him saying that "true revisionists will not be fooled by this new twist to the sorry tale of The Hoax of the Twentieth Century."

So as Holocaust Deniers go Nick Griffin's really pretty far out there....

I think you found it a little uncomfortable talking to me in RL...I could sense that, why I didn't push it...

Like it....

my, how this one has flowed onwards...

if you want to question th nenefit of immigration - remember the NHS staff shortage?

in our area 3000 staff from s.e. asia are being trained as nurses...

i reckon 50% of the doctors i've seen are immigrants from Asia

and though much is made of 1 in 4 people in portsmouth being forriners - there is a massive hospital there (not to mention, a port..and a university...)

i would welcpome more immigration.

"You can welcome immigration and immigrants without wanting a multi-cultural society.

You want to live here, you fit in with our culture. That's what my mother did when she immigrated here over 47 years ago. That doesn't mean that people can't enjoy their own traditions but it does mean that we make it clear that the liberal humanistic/Christian culture is the one that will predominate here. .

I am quite happy with the indigenous culture of Great Britain. I don't see a reason to change it."

I don't think anyone has a real problem with peoples traditions and their beliefs as long as it doesn't encroach ( is that the right word? spelling?) on them.

I believe where this government went horribly wrong and lost the general public was when things became too P.C. Ie; you can't do this in case it offends someone, you can't do that. Look at the police cook who took the force to tribunnal because he was told he had to cook sausages and bacon (turns out he was eating bacon rolls anyway, which is why he lost) I think that's what the public see and hear and then they say 'hang on this is our bloody country and we can't do XYZ' that's when things hit boiling point.

We have a lovely ladies group that teaches people to read and speak english, they want to intergrate, they want to fit in, they want to learn and in turn at festival times (including christmas as we have some christian ladies from India) they share their customs with us.

That's two sides of the coin, the good and the bad. Choudray and his like will only ever make it seem bad.

Onagar: "SpeedyGonzalez it was you who compared a terrorist blowing up a marketplace full of innocents to a a British soldier accidentally killing a civilian." Ha! I just knew you were referring to my posts, and that you hadn't read them properly. Go back and read them again - look carefully for the bit where I write twice that it's their POV. Apologies accepted with cash donations.

MissM: "don't tell me DP, some of your best friends are Muslims and homosexuals right?"

daftpunk: "wrong.."

Exactly, which is why it's so obvious that you haven't got the foggiest idea what you're talking about when you write such nonsense about gays and Muslims.

One thing that irritates the hell out of me about convos about immigration is that the conversation is always entirely one-sided - i.e. complaints about foreigners coming into the UK. Nobody ever thinks about the mass immigration of thousands, perhaps millions of white Brits into countries all over the world. I'm not talking about those in the present day who go in for a personal life change; I'm referring to those who completely took over other people's countries - their governments, their lands, their properties; beat the crap out of the indigenous peoples and turned those countries into a Little Britain so that they could pilfer all their riches and send them back home to build up the UK. Daftpunk - if you really want an immigration whinge, you cannot possibly compare the 'damage', 'problems', etc of immigration into this country with the impact which white Brits have historically had on foreign nations. If you want to complain about immigration and sound like you know what you're talking about, start there first and educate yourself.

Now, had Brits not emigrated en masse in this way for hundreds of years, Britain would not be the wealthy country it is today. Do you believe, daftpunk, that immigration per se is wrong, or is it just when brown-skinned people enter the UK that it's wrong? Perhaps you think it's okay for white people to emigrate and bleed other countries dry but when people from those countries want a piece of the action they should just stay where they 'belong'?

I think for me a bigissue is that we are a comparatively small island. We will reach a point soon where we do not have room for more immigration. We have to make a choice between an open border policy and our green belt land!
Personnally I would rather limit immigration now to protect our woodland and green belt from over development.

'I'm referring to those who completely took over other people's countries - their governments, their lands, their properties; beat the crap out of the indigenous peoples' That'd be the Vikings and then the Normans in 1066?

I think that when the Brits left somewhere, they left a place in fairly good order with perhaps a justice system, or a measure of prosperity (Rhodesia springs to mind). You might like to compare that the mess that certain countries like Belgium made of places like the Congo, which has ongoing repercussions today. From what I can see many of the former Brit colonies have a fairly good relationship with us, and America seems to have survived any damage we did to it.

My problem with immigration is that the infrastructure is not in place to deal with it. There are problems for schools, doctors, dentists, housing, local councils etc. The other problem is assimilation. The councils bend over backwards to translate information into several different languages. Contrast this with Belgium. Where I live, I have to speak Flemish when I go to the Gemeente for anything; my ID card, my compost bin, my certificate to say I can work with kids; my tax return, my car tax documents; everything is in Flemish. The staff are not supposed to speak anything but Flemish to you. If you start in Flemish and lapse into English, then some will speak English to you, but many won't. The view here is that if you immigrate into Belgium you are very welcome, but you MUST learn the language, as few concessions will be made if you can't.

We also need to be examining closely what benefits the immigrant will bring to the UK. If they are going to benefit the economy or bring a needed skill, then fine. If they are benefit tourists, then no, they shouldn't come. Again, in Belgium, one has to prove that one member of the family has a job that is sufficient to support the others. You only have to look at the figures published the other day to see that already the Housing Benefit bill is larger than the combined defence and education budgets. That is unsustainable. Are you prepared to pay higher taxes to support immigration? Are you happy that in about 20 years time the population of the UK could be 70 million? That's too many for a small island methinks.

Riven, there are enough people living on this Island to do all the jobs needed. If we had zero unemployment then yes I agree we should open our borders to those who wish to work.
Should we have an open system thats lets all and sundrie in regardless of their ability to work?

But then that takes us back to some immigrant populations being inherantly sexist and treating the women as second class citizens.

I don't think anyone is denying that the govt needs to address the immigration issue openly with the public and make everyone aware of what it exactly means and what the policies are.Lots of people are just ignorant of the whole systemTthere is nothing wrong with concern about the capacity socially and economically for the UK to cope with more residents but the 'fuck off if you don'
t like it'attitude here is just based on fear ignorance and in some cases pure evil.

We have also had a birth rate increase over the past 10 years.
When we have zero unemployment then open up, until then close the doors.

The government are not able to facilitate the extra numbers. There are not enough hospitals, schools, doctors, dentists etc.
The most important fact is we are bankrupt. Where the hell will we find the money to support more immigrants? Even those working!

I am a language teacher and i get all kinds of learners here for different reasons. Yes there are those who are here illegally, they have changed their names and are working on someone else's NI number. Wrong i know but what does this say about the state of the countries they have come from? Others who are here from European countries are mostly working either as careworkers for the elderly or nightshifts in Tesco. So we do need them here as some Brits will not do the jobs they do as they are very low paid. As for the Wotton Bassett thing, obviously it is extremists but the worrying thing is that some of us judge all people of one religion the same and presume that all muslims are the same. My DH is Muslim and thinks the whole thing is disgusting and i guess most feel the same

'Foreign born immigrants can't claim benefits when they arrive'

I think they can if they are from an EU member state.

'but the 'fuck off if you don'
t like it'attitude here is just based on fear ignorance and in some cases pure evil.' I don't buy into that entirely. I think some people feel that they like the UK as it is, and they don't want it to change radically to accommodate others.

I am a temporary immigrant to Belgium; they do things differently to the UK here, but that is how they like things to run. I am not going to run around demanding that things that I deem stupid (priorite a droite on the roads; shops and banks closing at lunch times etc)should change because I find it odd. They extend a welcome to immigrants here, but on their terms. If you want to live here, then abide by our rules and learn our languages is how it goes, and for the most part it seems to be accepted.

Riven, dh working here means that he doesn't have time for language classes, and he was bumped off the course at the place he currently works because he missed too many classes. This is despite the fact he missed them because he had meetings out of Brussels in various EU and NATO member states. I have managed 2 years of Flemish, and if we stay here, then I will redo my second year and maybe do a third as well. Otherwise, I'll be learning Cornish in the not too distant future.

who said "fuck off if you don't like it here is based on evil"?

that's nuts, very weird, very obsessive, very ignorant

I do think that to tell someone to f off if you don't like it if they have fled a dangerous unstable country is awful.This is why the immigration issue needs to be open and honest so that we know what we are dealing with completely