Proposed march through Wooton Bassett

[FrozenNorth]

Here

Initially saw this on the BBC but this link gives a bit more detail. I support everyone's right to free speech but ... dear goodness, this seems to be exceptionally bad taste. My DH is an army doctor and, during his time in a free Afgan clinic for civilians run by the army, saved many Afgan lives. He's going out there again in January. I can imagine I'd be incredibly distressed if he'd lost his life in the conflict and somebody wrote to me explaining what he'd 'really' died for. Ugh. Maybe it's just my personal bias, but I can't help feel that the proposed march is sited to cause maximum potential for violent conflict and to cause maximum hurt to those who are bereaved.

My drug addiction is not up for discussion here, it never will be...that's my private life..

come on Riven...play fair

It all makes sense now thanks Riven

For goodness sake DP. You dodged a question from Riven before by making an issue of her religion. Only connect...

Crikey I step away to look after my children and what happens. A reasonably intelligent discussion has descended into name calling!!
Lovely.

"I suspect the people recruiting, training and arming suicide bombers don't see them as freedom fighters, though. Suspect their motives are far murkier. Money and power for starters" - Sadly, edam (it was edam, right? I copied that quote a while ago), I think you're right.

I also haven't seen anyone on this thread saying it's justified to kill innocents from any country. How ludicrous. Sounds more like someone's misinterpreted a post or two.

Riven - I didn't know bin Laden had been interviewed - where was that? Most peculiar indeed.

"I don't care what people think of the BNP...they are the only party who will stand up and say they want muslim extremists out of this country....they would change laws to get them kicked out..they will stand up and say they don't want anymore islamification of the UK, they will put UK born people first, they wont take anymore crap....."

But they won't stand up and say what they will do with "muslim extremists" that are UK born.

Still do you really expect the BNP to be consistent or even open about who they consider to be "British."

Badger - I'm still waiting for the BNP to do a mass DNA profiling of all their members...I should think it'll throw up some surprises in terms of their claims of 'ethnic Britishness'.

Hopefully the BNP will implode under the weight of the lies and the half truths they peddle.

I can't imagine that any person would pass Nick Griffin's 17,000 year old indigenous population test.

There is no such thing as "ethnic Britishness", which is exactly why the BNP can't define it without looking like idiots.

It's a fantasy.

Like so much of what the BNP believes in is.

Before anyone dares to suggest that that means I'm denigrating my own history I'd like to make clear that I'm keen on history and immensely proud of the history of this country.

Ronshar - i used to say that about Tony Blair.

I still live in hope! - except that I want him to literally implode.

Rofl at 17,000 years - is that really what Griffin says? That will let in precisely nobody then. Pillock.

Actually I think he should go the whole hog and rip up every molecule of matter in the UK that has arrived here as a result of immigration. That'll be...the Royal Family...the entire population...not just the roads but the principle of having roads (Romans) and toilets (Romans again)...all the thousands of buildings built by slaves and trillions of pounds earned directly and indirectly through slavery...most of the clothes on his back (actually, I think we'll let him keep those on, shall we? ), etc.

Bloody pillock.

He he I wouldnt. I would be out on my arse in no time.
Too much Irish in me for BNP liking!

...oh, and Christianity, which he claims to be the religion of this country - except that it's a Middle Eastern religion. That's banished too, then.

Look what I found on the internet:

Nicholas: The boy's name Nicholas \n(i)-cho-
las\ is pronounced NIK-oh-lus. It is of Greek origin

Griffin: a fantasy creature first invented in Central Asia.

Well, he's out then. Can we burn him slowly at the stake rather than just deporting him?

Ah but Speedy, it is happening to the Labour party. Slowly but surely they are showing themselves up for the peddlers of lies and half truths that they truly are.
Maybe TB will just suddenly spontaneously combust, leaving just a rather nice pair of shoes! Not that I wish for that to happen. Just having a joke.

Ronshar - yes, yes! Gordy is like their just punishment, isn't it? But TB does need to be brought down a peg or twenty as well.

"Rofl at 17,000 years - is that really what Griffin says?"

This is what Nick Griffin had to say on Question time (yes I did post it earlier):
"The indigenous people of these islands - the English, the Scots, the Irish and the Welsh - the colour is irrelevant. It is the people who have been here overwhelming for the last 17,000 years. We are the aborigines here. .. the simple fact is that the majority of the British people are descended from people who?ve lived here since time immemorial."

As said, fantasy, complete fantasy.

at Speedy's demolition of Griffin.

Really, 17,000 years? No-one in this country today can trace their lineage that far back in the UK, anyway, modern humans would have been in Russia and Turkey by then but not this country, IIRC.

(And yes, Speedy, you got the right person!)

"...oh, and Christianity, which he claims to be the religion of this country - except that it's a Middle Eastern religion. That's banished too, then"

You can never import a religion into a country! Oh, hang on, unless it's Christianity.

You should never try to change the culture of a country! Oh, hang on, unless it's something like worker's rights, women voting, child labour, free education, etc. etc.

You can never become British no matter how long you live here, you'll always be just a "guest"! Oh, hang on, unless you're Roman, German, Danish, Norman, Norwegian...

Foreigners can never come and live here! Oh, hang on, unless they're popular, like the Gurkha's.

Families of people that fought for us can come here! Oh, hang on, unless they're Polish.

All of this just so they can dance around the issue that they just don't like skins that aren't white.

"Families of people that fought for us can come here! Oh, hang on, unless they're Polish."...or West African...or West Indian...or Indian...

Bleeding pricks.

I meant to respond to whoever it was earlier that said it was sad that the group proposing this march was not marching for women's rights as well. What I was going to say was: good point. And: fat chance.

Alan Johnson has condemed the march;

"Mr Johnson said: "The idea that anyone would stage this kind of demonstration in Wootton Bassett fills me with revulsion."

Shame it only took David Cameron to condemn the march first before the prime minister and then Johnson pipped up.

Cameron has also called for Mr Choudray to be 'looked at very closely' in regards to his views.

If Mr Johnson is truely 'disgusted' then why hasn't he done something about this hate filled group before, being Home Secretary and all.

"If Mr Johnson is truely 'disgusted' then why hasn't he done something about this hate filled group before, being Home Secretary and all." I am sure the group, if they are a potential threat, have already been on the radar of MI5 for quite some time. If they've done nothing illegal, they can't be charged or banned. Johnson may be disgusted but perhaps he's done nothing about the march itself because, as many of us have already said, the situation is complex.

Actually he has done something he's taken the cowards way out and said if the police come up with a reason to ban it he will back them.

Nothing like passing the buck with this government.

Oh, this bunch of self-publicists would just love it if the home sec gave into public indignation and banned the march. I hope the home sec has more sense than to hand them such an easy victory.

Alan Johnston doesn't strike me as a stupid man, so fingers crossed.

Interestingly, having just tried to access the Islam4Uk website which I was looking at yesterday, I keep getting a forbidden error, so maybe the site has been taken down.

I do think that what they are preaching if you have a close look at the website, comes close to sedition, which was I think an offence the last time I looked. They want the imposition of Sharia'h law and the overthrow of the Government. Listening to Choudray on the radio, he was deliberately trying to drive a wedge between Muslims and the rest of the population. He claims to speak for all Muslims in the UK; well I don't think he does. There are Muslim soldiers in the ISAF Forces in Afghanistan - will he mourn them when they are killed by the Taleban?

For all we think we have freedom of speech, in reality we don't. D notices are slapped on press articles and sedition (and treason) are taken seriously. Choudray and his ilk should be dealt with under those laws, or at least under the incitement to racial or religious hatred laws that he is so keen to beat the rest of the UK with. I note that he styles himself in an open letter to the families of those UK forces killed in Afghanistan as the UK Head of Al-Muhajiroun. I also note that this organisation has been banned in the UK; so why is he being allowed freedom of speech for a banned organisation?

What I don't understand is why we allow organisations which are fronts for violent extremism to flourish in the UK, whatever their racial or religious background. I was astounded that Abu Hamza was allowed to get away with his 'teaching' for so long (I'd have been sacked had I stood up in the classroom and come out with half the things he said), and that he was allowed to stay in the UK for so long. I didn't understand the ban on Geert Wilders, whilst radical/extremist Muslims seem to be encouraged to flourish; he wasn't allowed into the UK to give his point of view. The censorship in this case was one sided and ineffectual, as what Geert Wilders had to say could be seen on the internet.

I am not a fan of the BNP at all, but I do think that soon the UK will have to crack down severely on allowing people who have been to or are trying to get in from places like Afghanistan/certain parts of Pakistan/Yemen/Somalia etc to come into the UK, unless they can provide a good reason for their journey there, or their reasons for wanting to come to UK. I am immeasurably relieved that the UK hasn't signed up to Schengen, and that we still retain border and passport controls, which provide a scant measure of control and security.