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Man shoots himself, wife and daughter.

175 replies

Ewe · 29/12/2009 14:04

How very sad

It's really near to where one of my good friends lives, he was just telling me about it. Utterly devastating for all there family and friends.

OP posts:
Rindercella · 30/12/2009 23:10

Just heard on Sky that the mother's ex husband has said "she was a 'lovely women', but added - perhaps significantly that 'she wasn't a person to back down in an argument'". So, obviously it is her failure to back down that resulted in some cunt shooting both her and their 4 year old daughter. Jesus Christ

festivefreakout · 30/12/2009 23:38

I don't know much about the statistics from the fathers' side but have done a bit of research on mothers who kill. It is very, very clear from studies of infanticide and filicide by mothers that women in these situations are generally alone, poor, often have repeatedly reached out for help- Michelle Oberman and Cheryl Meyer in the US have done a lot of work on this.

No one can deny that women can abuse children horribly. However, the situations in which they do so are different and reflect social assumptions that women are the default carers (and frequently, the social isolation of lone parents who tend overwhelmingly to be mothers).

given that it is women who are overwhelmingly left in sole charge of children in frequently appalling circumstances, I think that ShriekingHarpy's statistic of 47 percent maternal killers versus 53 percent fathers is very significant.

It is very, very hard to imagine a woman storming in to her ex's house to shoot her children, him and herself dead, because she is not getting enough access or feels insignificant in her former family's life

It is hard to imagine for a reason, because this is generally male behaviour. I am not arguing that all men are murderers, inferior, or wired this way, but the construction of masculinity as control, physical prowess etc sadly dictates different trends in the acting out of violence in the minority of cases where a parent murders children. (Men are FAR more likely to take somebody else with them when they murder children, usually an ex).

festivefreakout · 30/12/2009 23:39

there's a very interesting book on paternal filicide called 'Come with Daddy'- will try to find the link...

dittany · 30/12/2009 23:40

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LordPanofthePeaks · 30/12/2009 23:44

He wasn't going to a contact visit though. IT was at his house where she was dropping the daughter off, and I am presuming in the following argument he accessed a gun that he already had and used it.

Rindercella · 30/12/2009 23:44

Sorry Dittany, I meant it was the ex-husband of the woman who was killed (the mother of the 4 yr old girl) who said that.

I know, it's bloody ridiculous.

dittany · 30/12/2009 23:48

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edam · 31/12/2009 10:08

I hope the people who came on here to make excuses for the murdering bastard realise how bloody wrong they are and how dangerous their initial reaction of sympathy for violent, abusive men who kill their children and partners out of hatred and anger is.

Ewe · 31/12/2009 11:23

Not sure if it's been linked to already but the Times have an article outlining his violent history. He even spent time in prison for threatening first wife with crossbow and setting her car alight What a sick bastard.

OP posts:
macdoodle · 31/12/2009 11:25

"there is a school of thought that could say, nmen become family anihilators (sp) because they are more often denied access to their children"

oh FFS really

macdoodle · 31/12/2009 11:32

When my XH was arrested for attacking me in my own home, they conviscated his shotguns (licensed in a gun safe in our marital home)!
When he got back with the OW, he applied to have them back, she wrote a letter of support, and he bloody got them back , no idea where they are as the safe is still in my home!!
he has a history of DV against me, numerous compliants from me, a past (lapsed history)of arrests for GBH/ABH, his first wife divorced him for violence as well!
So why on earth give him back his guns bloody ridiculous, they didnt even ask or tell me, he told me with great glee!

And yes he has threatened to shoot me in the past "if I ever cheated on him", and even though we are split 3 years and almost divorced he considers my new DP an affair

The system supports these men!

jellybeans · 31/12/2009 12:50

Its sad and shocking that so many men and someimes women (on other sites too) try and somewhat justify this/DV and try and sympathise with the killer or say todays custody laws are partly to blame or the woman wound him up (like in the John Hogan case). Bull. It's nothing to do with custody rights etc, it's revenge pure and simple and maybe lack of control and anger.

Nekabu · 31/12/2009 13:49

macdoodle, kick up a stink. Put your dissatisfaction in writing to the police and to the gun licensing people, citing the record of domestic violence and the threats to shoot you. It shouldn't be that hard to get it revoked if you shove enough evidence at them. If they do not revoke it, ask them to give you reasons (in writing) why they haven't done so. Your xh sounds an utter gobshite.

StewieGriffinsMom · 31/12/2009 14:39

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nighbynight · 31/12/2009 15:26

macdoodle, how scarey.
My ex is also a "Terrorist" which is the name given to these kind of threatening abusers in Lundy Bancrofts books (I know they are quoted a lot on here, but they are spot on about lots of things!). Apparently I will never live to claim my pension, as soon as dd2 is old enough he is going to kill me.

These men deserve no sympathy, they just cant bear to think of their ex wife having a life of her own. And its sickening how easily they get sympathy from idiots who think that the court always sides with women. Judge in our case said it was the worst DV case she had ever heard, but my ex still to this day gets sympathy from people by saying that I withhold the children from him.

I feel very sorry for the poor woman and child in this case.

festivefreakout · 31/12/2009 16:34

Macdoodle and nighbynight's stories are important. For all the talk of men and women being 'equally' violent, unreasonable, threatening etc, I think you would have to look very hard to find men terrorised by ex wives in this way. I am not saying it never happens but clearly far less often as all DV statistics indicate.

LordPanofthePeaks · 31/12/2009 21:30

Are we loking then at campaigning for a change in law? by this I mean making DV histories more available? Or taking wider criterion for gun possession? Or a change in CAFCASS professional practice? Or making DV Courts compulsory in every magistrates AND Crown Courts??

TheShriekingHarpy · 31/12/2009 22:31

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LordPanofthePeaks · 31/12/2009 23:05

Harpy - I appreciate all you say.

Excepting veering onto the the reasons for suicide being a 'selfish' act. There are variant reasons for this ultimate act. My best friend commited this act, as he saw it, as an act of love for those around him. Including me. He was so damaging to those around him, through his alcoholism, that he chose to spare us all any more. Oddly, his post-mortem revealed no alcohol in his body. He did it in utter sobriety.
We are wandering into a different world when we go from 'family annihilators' to suicide victims. But yes, the effects reverberate onward, and I remain partly angry with him as he was such a beautiful man.

StewieGriffinsMom · 31/12/2009 23:13

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festivefreakout · 01/01/2010 11:58

interesting stats Harpy, thanks.

Agree re motive issue- but I think we do have to take into account the issue of mothers' (especially lone mothers') generally lower socioeconomic status and the social conditioning of males which makes a few of them so vulnerable to the 'honour/control' trigger...

festivefreakout · 01/01/2010 11:59

Harpy, btw I had an abused/controlled father (never physically abused) so I hear what you are saying about non-reporting of abuse by wives...

TheShriekingHarpy · 01/01/2010 17:29

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Wetblanket78 · 07/02/2023 13:57

So sad😢😭 but wtf did he have access to gun's with his history and mental health? If he wanted to take his own life then fine. But why take the life of his innocent child and mother?

SoupDragon · 07/02/2023 14:47

THIS IS A ZOMBIE THRED FROM 2009!

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