Man shoots himself, wife and daughter.

[Ewe]

How very sad

It's really near to where one of my good friends lives, he was just telling me about it. Utterly devastating for all there family and friends.

Just told DH and he said it was probably for the best. I can see where he is coming from as she woulndt' have wanted to live without her daughter but her poor father has lost his child and grndchild in a day or so.

Woah, calm down StewieGriffinsMom. No need for the unpleasantness towards me, thanks!

I never idenitified any person in particular, never even read any names on the thread TBH. However, I did see the DM's take on it whilst in a shop earlier however, which seemed to be the one making most speculative comments than the other papers. And then saw a DM comment on here.

And, as I mentioned before, the BBC - which I do considered one of the more authoritive and reputable media options - didn't mention any reasons, etc. Therefore I cannot comment on reasons and do not wish to speculate either way at this time.

Is that ok?

xposts with others. Very sorry to hear that the mother has now died I hope the mum and child are reunited in some way now, both in peace.

totally agree with atlantis
'Another child dead because men have more rights than children.'

TSH: While things are a lot better now than they have been in the past, there are still plenty of judges who will give abusive male murderers lighter sentences if their wives 'provoked' or 'taunted' them before the murder. And there is still a lot of victim-blaming in family-annhiliator cases ie when that shitbag threw his children off a hotel balcony, people were busy speculating about how much his wife was to blame because she had been Seeing Another Man (so of course she deserves to have her children killed in front of her, the slut...)

I've just heard that the mother has sadly died. Just tragic all round.

The mother has died

here

How awful awful awful.

Can you imagine though waking up and being told your daughter is dead

I thought that as well, ilove. I'd rather pass on, too. I could never cope if I lost my children and would want to join them as soon as possible.

So far I'm agreeing with Dittany and SGB. When I heard this on the news this morning my first reaction was 'another DV-escape gone bad, hope it's no-one we've been talking to on MN'.

A man might be driven to suicide, an abuser is 'driven' to kill.

And why are they calling him 'estranged' when she was dropping the girl off for a contact visit?

I was thinking that maybe this case and the Sheen case in the news might do some good in reminding people what abuse - and abusers - are like, but the reporting of this so far does seem to be perpetuating a lot of the more dangerous myths

Our revulsion at this crime (for that is what it is) reflects and is compounded by our role as parents. How could a parent kill their own child? - we are asking. It is incomprehensible to us as parents to kill our children. However, looking beyond that instant emotional reaction it is equally disturbing to me to think that nothing will be learned. The police will close the file, the inquests will be heard, the funerals held, we on this thread and in wider society will express our disgust and incomprehension at what this man did and then life will move on and it will happen again.

Does anyone remember the Shropshire business man who killed himself, his wife and daughter and set fire to his luxury home as he feared bankruptcy? That was equally incomprehensible and as far as I know there was no previous history of violence by the man in that case.

I think TheShriekingHarpy has made well balanced posts and her list of possible 'trigger factors' in her post @ 13:19:59 put the issue much more clearly than my attempt last night.

Identifying the triggers for this kind of behaviour by men (and women) and working out when and how society should intervene is what should happen now - but I fear it will not. Why was the man allowed a gun? Why did the mother return to the family home for visting rights if there is a history of violence? Was she forced/advised to return? Should the social services/police have given more support? Should all children be made wards of court in instances like this? Should psychiatric profiling be undertaken? Should visits be supervised? What role/responsiblty should family courts have? Should they have an earlier role? Is there any point at which parents (of either sex) should be detained in custody to prevent harm?

The questions are too complex and too numerous to address in this forum. Only a proper public inquiry can do that. Just labelling the man as a violent abuser does no good. He may well have been, that may have been the whole explanation, maybe not, but it gets us nowhere.

I ask my question of last night again. Why do men (and women) do this in these circumstaces and how can it be prevented? If we cannot answer those questions it will just happen in future as it has in the past with terrible regularity.

I agree in cases with a history of DV, no unsupervised contact should be allowed. However, men like this may still find a way round it if they are determined.

YY Lenin - 'tragedy' seems to be synonomous with 'accident' or 'couldn't have been predicted', whereas this poor woman and child were deliberately murdered by an abusive man.*

Calling relationships 'stormy' as per one of the reports linked just suggests that she had some culpability.

*I'm not caveating that statement - according to the reports he was abusing her and continued to do so until he killed her.