Man shoots himself, wife and daughter.

[Ewe]

How very sad

It's really near to where one of my good friends lives, he was just telling me about it. Utterly devastating for all there family and friends.

"Well we could start with situations where there has been violence in the home witnessed by or directed at the children and unsupervised contact being granted. That would be a start. No unsupervised contact in those cases."

No contact whatsoever, supervised or not, my daughter was terrified of her father and was verbally beaten with the big stick by cafcass for four years that she should see 'daddy' which terrified her further.

The courts need to stop abusing our children, whatever happened to in the best interests of the child because the only dads that seem to get contact are the abusing ones.

"For annihilators with bankruptcy imminent, I guess it's all to do with failure"

And control. Even if they haven't been violent men, they've often been very controlling. Everything seems to revolve around them, if they're going to kill themselves then no one else can go on without them. Interesting how that guy recently destroyed everything he owned, house, cars, horses, dogs and his wife and daughter - like they were all possessions.

But what would have supervised contact achieved?

I've just seen the sad news of the woman's death on channel five. They made it very clear that the man was known to be violent and abusive, had been dealt with by the police afew years ago, and they interviewed a neighbour who said he was volatile and one to steer clear of. So hopefully it isn't just being dismissed as a lonely dad with mental health issues.

Among all the flowers placed by the house is a dressing up dress. Not sign that before, is normally flowers, teddies and candles.

The DM did today say that he was violent.

Sad to hear of the mother's death as well.

how many children are killed like this each year????

The BBC just reported that he was apparently a violent man who had been violent to a previous wife 20 years ago. Not sure where this info might have come from but I am pretty sure the BBC doesn't report speculation.

how many children are killed like this each year???? Does any one know?

Google it.

"Even though there are women every day who flee from violent partners because they know that they and their children are in mortal danger from them".

Yes. Remember "that" thread and the follow ups?

I am saddened but not at all surprised that there are people on here seeking to 'understand' the motivations behind this hideous crime.

No normal, decent man, in fact not many abusive men would do something so terrible.

Sometimes there are triggers for someone behaving completely out of character - the man in Shropshire had lost all his cash and that can destroy someone's psyche. But there are lots of men who view their wives and children as possessions. I mentioned earlier my mum's ex-colleague was was murdered in front of her children by her husband. She had left him for being violent and yet she was so scared of getting in trouble for not allowing her children to see him that she went along with the stipulated visits. He shot her head off. Not reported widely because 20 years ago, DV really wasn't. It was brushed under the carpet because of the innate sexism that exists in our legal system. Two women a week are murdered by their current or former partners in the UK. Do you hear much about that? No you don't. Because it's so fucking mundane.

The poor grandad, he has now lost his daughter and his grandaughter

The Times quotes a neighbour who says the murderer had already spent time in prison for violence towards his ex wife.

Obviously not corroborated but I do place the Times as a reputable source.

FFS the number of men who are violent towards their female partners is MASSIVELY bigger than the number of women who are violent towards their partners/children. Remember that until very recently, women who killed partners with a long, long documented history of violence got longer sentences than men who killed their partners for 'nagging' them.
And decent human beings who get into major financial troubles and can't stand it any longer kill themselves. People who kill their families because of their own fuckups are NOT GOOD HUMAN BEINGS. They are bad, selfish, stupid fuckups who regard their families as their property and will have been all along.
There is this very longstanding idea that men are 'people' and women/children are 'men's appendages/possessions'. It's dwindling, along with the longstanding Western idea of white supremacy, but it's not entirely gone yet, for one thing it's a lot more pervasive.
I think it's also possible that this idea of the spiteful dumped woman witholding access because of sexual jealousy is a bit exaggerated. There are dozens of MNers who have been dumped in humiliating ways who are doing their best to retain their dignity and support their children's right to contact with fathers who might well have been lousy partners but are niether bad fathers nor dangerous. OK, there are bound to be one or two women so consumed with sexual jealousy that they want to poision the relationship between father and DC, but let's not forget that deranged sexual jealousy in men is more likely to lead to, well, murder...

Haven't read the whole thread so sorry if this has already been said-
I read the front pages onthe newsstands today, thinking how awful, and not again, it seems to happen so often, in fact yesterday when the first reports were coming out I expected it would turn out to be as it has, and then I was thinking, really, this is a failure of our judicial/criminal system as serious as when social services fail to protect children who end up killed by parents/carers. That girl and her mum were in just as much need of protection as baby P, and were failed just as badly. Why isn't it seen like that?

The fathers' rights brigade has to be a big factor, I guess, shalli. The courts do often enforce contact with violent men. So even before it gets to court, any woman who leaves a violent man is told they had better allow contact or the courts won't look kindly on them.

Sad to hear about the mother's death as well as her daughters - but maybe it is better in some small way as it would be a horrible life for you to live when your child died.

Isn't there some way the courts can be held to account for these decisions?

It'd be nice to think so but no, don't think they are. In this case it hadn't got that far as they'd only escaped four weeks ago, but there have been cases where children have been murdered during contact ordered by a court despite the murderer having a history of domestic violence.

It does raise the question of women having access to men's violent history IF they are in a relationship etc, rather like the checking of histories of sexual abusers where a women is single with children, thoughI ahve no idea how that has developed, or if a DV check would be at all credible.