French citizenship : Only if your wife isn't veiled

[nothingofthesort]

I can't figure out what to make of this. Men shouldn't get a say in how their wives dress isn't it? Doesn't this encourage the opposite?

will be denied citizenship that should say.

i couldn't agree more, math.

having lived there, i can say, many French have a very strong sense of nationality, much more so than here, IME.

being French is an intrinsic part of who they are, and important to them.

don't like it, don't live there.

secularism is a strong part of french identity.

again, IMO, it's their country, their democracy.

ours went to fight an illegal war.

theirs did not.

tit for tat.

This veil is nothing more than the oppression of women by men.
It has nothing to do with Islam.

It has no place in our society.

Secularism really is a huge part of being French, and that is what precludes the veil-wearing. If the veil is just a piece of cloth why are some muslims so insistent on wearing it? It's more than just a piece of cloth to them, of course, and to the French too. It's seen as a counter-cultural (counter-French) statement, a statement of religious allegiance, therefore a political manifesto in the eyes of the Fifth Republic.

Malung -well said.

What mathanxiety said.

well said, math.

in my own limited experience, separation of church and state in all forms as much as possible is an intrinsic part of French nationality.

your religion is, in many ways, secondary to your role as a citizen of France.

personally, i'll go a step further and feelt is oppressive garment should be banned full stop.

it's dangerous and has no place in Western society.

[wishes she were on the 'talk to me, i'm drunk' thread but elas, is sober and insomniac]

I agree with much that expat and mathsanxiety say.

Any woman that chooses to wear one is betraying the thousands of women who are forced to wear them by their abusive husbands.

Any woman that voluntarily chooses to endorse the message that women count for nothing and all men are sex crazed and incapable of control needs to rethink her principles.

I would just say that the veil does not always signify oppression - I know women who wear hijab and face veil against the wishes of their dhs. In Afghanistan it is certainly a form of oppression but many women in the West choose to wear the veil for their own reasons. It is very ignorant naive to make blanket statements about the motives of all wearers.

that's a bit like saying the Nazi uniform doesn't always signify facism...some might wear it because the colour suits them.

riven whose to say it is harmless though?

Many woman are forced into wearing the veil and those that have chosen to do so often perpetuate the myths surrounding why they should have to.

I have had well educated, intelligent woman tell me that they wear the veil because essentially men cannot be expected to control themselves around a woman whose body and face is uncovered. I find that offensive in the extreme.

crazy to compare a woman consenting to sex with a woman who endorses the uniform of countries that believe it's ok to stone women to death.

Very happy for the French. About time.

I disagree strongly with the veil, for a whole host of reasons.

But doesn't living in a democracy mean that there will be things you disagree? I'm glad there are things I disagree with in my everyday life- surely it's the mark of a free society?

The reason we would have to wear the veil if visiting some muslim countries is because their society does not afford its citizens the same rights as we do. Banning the veil is akin to forcing everyone to wear one IMO, and is just plain wrong.