Three Irish women who travelled to the UK to have abortions have now gone to Strasbourg to argue that Ireland's strict abortion law violated their rights.

[TinselInYourBum]

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/news/2009/12/091209_ireland_abortion_et_sl.shtml]

God and I still can't do links.

I strongly feel that abortion should be kept illegal in Ireland.

MN Jury?

You have nothing to be ashamed of, muggle.

You did what was right for you and your family.

And you weren't the only one who found that response upsetting.

I've used the Mirena as contraception myself.

Again, I can't use combined contraception (DH on list for vasectomy).

notanun, please feel free to start a thread whenever you need to or even revive an old thread found on search if you need to.

i've never been in your shoes, but many here have and are readily supportive and not cruel in disguise.

Thank you expat. I actually have started a thread- did so a few days ago- and have had some wonderful support from some very unexpected places.

The thing that strikes me the most through having lived through this so far is that I truly did not understand how it could feel to be in this position and have reaffirmed the previous suspicion that you cannot possibly hope to judge somebody's experiences on your own theoretical beliefs. I have enormous respect for anybody's personal opinion which I think you can hold whilst acknowledging that you are in no place to judge or even understand the actions of those around you.

"I'm sorry if you object to my calling it killing, but that is what it is. Women who chose to do so call it abortion and some can't even bring themselves to use that word, they call it termination."

IN YOUR OPINION!!!!! To you it is killing, not to others. Saying it over and over again does not make it true. Abortion is not technically the right word, as that can also be the right term for a miscarriage.
Personal attack? Look at your own posts for personal attacks, the fact that you couch them in less obvious language does not make them any less personal or attacking.

Expat
I do not think that Mrs Rigby was being 'cruel in disguise'
Yes she has strong views, as strongy against abortion as the pro 'choice' contributor are for it. She used language that is right for her, and would also be right for may others. It is also, English language wise, correct.

To be fair, this thread was not started as someone seeking support, and yes, if I were seeking or planning an abortion then I would not want to hear the facts either, and I would probably not be on this board right now, which is why abortion clinics dont tell people how and what is to be done (which is odd as for evey other medical proceedure they make damn sure you know what is involved)

My best friend, and I'll include quotes.

:You might as well hit newborn babies over the head with a hammer'

'Doctors won't do it (abortion), that just shows you how wrong it is.

You are adopted, what would you have done if you were aborted?

' If you thought it was right, you'd tell everyone'

I could go on and on.
I had very little support. The support I had was from the baby's father. He found it hard too, but he was there for me, and accepted it was my choice.

notanun you are right, I didn't read properly - you didn't say you didn't think it is a life/baby.

I'm not saying what you are going to do you are doing lightly, I was asking if you were lessening it by saying a bunch of cells.

Your right I don't know anything about you.

I'm not saying your leaving it, I freely admit that the NHS need to hurry up referrals and they are causing the hold ups.

I gave you the description, because I thought you said that the baby/fetus/embryo inside you was just a bunch of cells. I was trying to point out it's not, but it seems I didn't need to because you already knew anyway.

I'm truly sorry for the miscarriage, that must make it even harder to do what your going to do.

Bottom line, if the baby is going to kill you, then you have no choice but to abort/terminate.

If the baby or whatever you want to call it, is going to kill you then you have no choice. I'm sorry for what your going through and really hope that you get the appointment soon so that this is over quickly for everyone concerned. If I were in your shoes and risked death, I would abort.

Actually, it is rather difficult to find doctors and nurses to perform abortions. Many Obs wont do them unless there is specific significant threat to the mothers life.

It is one of the very few things that nurses are still able to make a 'conscientious' objection to and not be disciplined.

That is because it is a horrible thing to be part of.

I am seeking abortion, I have wanted to hear the facts, I have done nothing but (properly) research the facts. Again you generalise that I'm an ignorant, silly girl with my head in the sand. And yes I know those weren't your words but I can understand implication thank you.

And the clinics don't tell you? Oh ho I can assure that they do. In detail. They do not proceed until you are in full receipt of the details.

Whilst so sure of your own opinion and keen to assert it, you clearly do not know or understand the reality of the situations to which you refer.

'if I were seeking or planning an abortion then I would not want to hear the facts either, and I would probably not be on this board right now, which is why abortion clinics dont tell people how and what is to be done (which is odd as for evey other medical proceedure they make damn sure you know what is involved)'

Nice try at trying to hound people off this thread.

I was not told the details of the procedure to evacuate my uterus after missed miscarriage. I was told of the risks and given a GA.

This was probably done to be merciful.

I found out the details myself because I wanted to know, hard as it was.

I've had several major knee surgeries and was told in general what would be done.

Not odd at all.

If you wanted more detail, you ask the surgeon.

'which is why abortion clinics dont tell people how and what is to be done (which is odd as for evey other medical proceedure they make damn sure you know what is involved)'

Yes you're quite right,which is why the Marie Stopes clinic site says this
At your consultation we will explain everything you need to know about surgical abortion in as much detail as you need. This page is designed to give you a brief overview of what surgical abortion involves, further information can be found in our Abortion your questions answered booklet and for any further queries please call us at anytime on 0845 300 8090.'

'Actually, it is rather difficult to find doctors and nurses to perform abortions. Many Obs wont do them unless there is specific significant threat to the mothers life.'

Bollocks.

MrsRigby, thank you for your words. I am also sorry for your recent loss. It may sound hollow knowing what you know about me now but be kind to yourself. When you lose a much wanted pregnancy you grieve for an entire life, a planned future and it takes time. I hope MN can be of support to you and that you have support in rl.

mugggle, all jedward disagreements aside, I am sorry you had those things said to you and pleased you had support. If not for my dh, I wouldn't like to think what would be happening in my life right now.

hope you found the strength to dump your 'friend', muggle.

that's crap.

I'm so sorry you had to listen to such hurtful comments Mugggle,and from a so called friend too.

Notanun

None of what I have posted on this thread is directed at you. I promise you that.

I do not know you, or any of the details of your dilemma/past medical history,apart from what I have read.

I have said over and over that if a woman life is in real danger, then a decision must be made, and for all sorts of humanistic and ethical reasons the woman does and should come up as the most important factor.

It may be that your life truly is in danger, or it may be that you perceive that it is so. If it is the former then I hope you can have your abortion as quickly as possible. Is there any way possible to have it done privately, more quickly?

If it is the case that you percieve it is in danger, but there is any small chance that it is not, then all |I would say is please be sure, because you have obviously thought deeply about what it is you intend to do, and I hope you dont take offense at this but you have seemed upset and distressed by it at times.

No expat, I am not wrong.

No, you're very sure of yourself.

Actually it took me a long time to dump the friend.

I'd known her for so long, we'd been friends for so long.

I knew I should have questioned her years earlier, but I didn't.

I do feel sorry for her kids. Ongoing.

I'm sure she'll sort it out, with a guy, probably another guy. Always a guy.

Better a random guy than an abortion she thinks.

If anyone would like to check the information out themselves please go to

www.life.org.nz/abortion/abortionmedicalkeyissues/abortionclinicstaff/

It talks about the difficulty of finding and keeping staff to perform abortions in the UK, and also of the effects on staff including what we know as PTSD or perpetrator-induced traumatic stress.

Can I ask the pro-lifers something please?
Do you agree with terminating a pregnancy when the mothers life is in danger?

Chickens
For me, ethically and morally if you have to choose thehn yes, it is a necessary thing.

I do not place the unborn child above the woman, but i do feel it is very worthy of consideration and respect on all levels.

I see that awfulchoice as a bit like comitting a murder, but in self defence. You have no option but so what do you do.

But that doesnt make it acceptable in the other 99.999% of cases.

Another exstremely interesting writing on the research that has been done with Abortionists, which goes into much more detail about the studies and includes many quotes from actual workers (all of whom positioned themselves as 'pro choice' BTW)

www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=16-07-022-f

"I never had to face the hard decision on what to do with an unwanted pregnancy, because I didn't sleep around and always used protection when I did."

WOW!!!! Let me tell you that dh has been my only sexual partner....EVER. For 20yrs!

I fell pregnant on the minipill & using a condom. Can't really get more belts & braces than that!

I have noticed tho, how my explanation of how I fell pregnant has not had so much of a mention from you, mrsrigby or wanttodnoo!

And the comment to muggle, re the coil...I was told that it was as effective as the pill! How fucking dare you criticize her for falling pregnant on contraception, just because it wasn't YOUR choice of contraception?

And the whole 'have the baby adopted'. I would have many children if only the pregnancies weren't so bad. I almost lost dc1 because I had PE & she became distressed after induction. I refuse to put my body thru a third pregnancy & birth just to give my child up....I would rather terminate pregnancies than reject my child.

Haven't read all of this but if abortions had been available in Ireland then I probably wouldn't be here. My Irish mother travelled to England to have me and then went back without me. I'm not saying that this is a particularly great scenario but i don't like the idea of loads of babies being aborted.