The sad case of Meredith Kercher

[FreeGeorgeJackson]

I feel for her parents. The trial seems to have gone on for ages doenst it?
I cant see ( form what i read) how kNox will get off.

And just to add that not even in Perugia this case occupies the thoughts of all. Hardly anybody have spoken about it except for in the very aftermath. I have never sat with my friends, in livingrooms probably a stone thrown from the murder site, discussing this. It has been sensationalised in the Uk and in America for obvious and opposite reasons, not in Italy.
Like others living in Italy have said there have been plenty of heinous crimes in Italy perpetrated by italians and other non-italians in the last two years to occupy people's attentions.

And yes sex is not something italians are shocked about.

I absolutely believe that this isn't anti-americanism at work.

Jeremy Vine did a piece on it this week on his Radio 2 show and I just thought it was really damaging to Knox's case for people to be making it into an anti-American thing.

Most people on this thread though aren't saying it's anti-american - the people here who believe in their innocence think there are issues with the DNA.

personally I believe that this is really all to do with the prosecutor prefering to see innocent people in prison than looking stupid/wrong about his ever so early conclusion to the case.

I think the DNA evidence presented is not conclusive and the circumstantial evidence is flimsy and am just really surprised that the Jury found them guilty based upon that evidence. However there will be a report released in the next 90 days which may explain more about why they decided this evidence proved their guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

Then Both these people can appeal and hopefully they will be able to prove their innocence. Unfortunately at the moment it seems that the only way for them to be released is for them to prove that the evidence is not strong enough and that the trial was not fair. Unless they can find some evidence which proves that they were not there or that the timings presented by the police are incorrect then this is the only way for them to be released.

One thing I hope they do get to the bottom of is who made all the leaks to the press. So much about the case, the statements and the behaviour of the defendants was released to the press.

gio71 - if what you say is true good for the Italian press for not printing any of the leaks.
Though looking at some of the italian press reports it seems to me that they were as guilty of raking through various stuff to put on their pages and there have been at least 230 articles about the case in the italian newspapers since the begining of the month.

" It has been sensationalised in the Uk and in America for obvious and opposite reasons, not in Italy"

it certainly has. Some of the press reports here in the UK are just ridiculous. The daily mail and papers like that printing pictures of Amanda Knox pretending to fire a machine gun, of Raphael Sollecito dressed up in fancy dress with a cleaver - as if^ it means something, or is in some way related to the case.

Some of the other papers have thankfully been much more measured and prepared to talk bout both sides of the case.

If I remember correctly wasn't it an Italian TV station, Telenorba, which showed graphic footage of the crime scene?

I'm not saying the case hasn't been reported here, of course it has. What I am saying is that this hasn't been a case that has been escalated to the level where the prosecuter may feel under pressure to get a result. It's not a Birmingham 6 environment! I also didn't say that the Italian press didn't print leaks-what I said was in the newspaper environment where my DP works, which is normally a hotbed of leaked info, discussion, rumours etc this case hasn't really registered. So the idea that a proscecutor who lets face it, risks losing a case every time he takes a new one on needed to push for an unjust conviction so he didn't look stupid just doesn't wash with me. This is very different to the monster of florence case. At the moment we have an investigation of the murder of a Brazilian transexual prostitute with links to leading politicians and the police which is taking the lead on stories. That is more than satisfying anyone's need for a high profile sex/murder case here believe me!!
Also re the alleged anti Americanism in this case, that seems to be one of the main areas that Knox's family and the Seattle senator are focusing on in approaching Clinton hence why I addressed it.

I think that Clinton has been quoted as saying it's anti-american but in reality she hasn't actually said that. Though not sure.

Am surprised that the case has not really registered at the paper your husband works for - Doesn't Sollecito's part in all this register in the papers and stuff over there?

I've never heard of Telenorba, is it one of those small, regional channels?
I don't know, perhaps me and Gio read the wrong newspapers that didn't gossip too much about this tragic case.

So, you reckon that the reason they've been convicted is the super inflated ego of Magnini? What about the other 19 judges involved in the trial?

On a more lighthearted note: at tom cruise making a film about the monster of florence.

It's just not discussed at his workplace because it's not seen as being that high profile a case. There is plenty going on in Italy at the moment to occupy the minds of chattering journalists!
Franca - Telenorba is here - I had to look it up and yes it is a small regional channel.

Maybe you are reading the right papers, rather than the wrong ones .

The monster of Florence is another case too close to home. Lovely place I grew up in ! Yes at Tom Cruise. I cannot see it as a good movie, me

DF , yes, I hope I read the right ones!

following this thread, have been too busy to post so far.
Haven't seen anything yet to convince me they did it - the prosecution has constructed a plausible narrative, but no more plausible than the countervailing one, so I just don't see how it can be beyond reasonable doubt. Is there a lot of evidence yet to be released, or does the case really rest on the things reported in the press?

I think it is a Theor which has been suggested by people (maybe not on here)

Lenin - I think the prosecutions case was that Guede, Sollecito and Knox planned the whole thing. There was certainly emphasis put on their (knox and Sollecito) phones being turned off at a certain point and Knox and Guede knowing eachother.

Guede's story is that after the consentual sexual contact with meredith he was in the toilet when Meredith was atttacked - at first by someone he didn't know and then after several changes to his story by AK and RS who he says he could clearly identify.

The prosecution didn't present Guede's version of events as what happened. they believe that all three were involved.

There is no evidence to suggest that AK and RS were all over the crime scene, though there is plenty to show that Guede was.

I am pretty sure none of them were high on drugs or claimed to be.

The reality is their stories only changed under loong questioning at the police station when they were being interviewed before they were arrested. They both very soon, as far as I am aware, went back to their original statements that they were together.

part of the prosecutions case lies in the different timings of phone calls, arrival at the house etc which don't tally with timings given by the police who arrived to investigate the discovery of Meredith's mobile phones in a nearby garden.

how strong was the evidence that Knox knew Guede?

But is the Italian criminal standard, 'reasonable doubt?'

"how strong was the evidence that Knox knew Guede?"

Am not sure to be honest. I think there were witness accounts that they had been seen together. Also I think they HAD been introduced at a party.

Incidentally - the boys who lived on the lower ground floor of the flat were growing their own dope which I think the residents upstairs knew about.

"But is the Italian criminal standard, 'reasonable doubt?'" yes it is see here

"Do jurors have to find Knox guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

Yes. The concept of proof beyond a reasonable doubt has long been a part of Italy's justice system. It was formalized and passed into law in 2006.

Knox's defense lawyer Luciano Ghirga said his team will remind jurors that, even after more than 40 hearings, everything is still in doubt.

The court's ruling (which is not called a verdict in Italy) is made by an eight-member jury: six laymen and two professional judges. They will vote, and the majority rules. In the case of a tie, the presiding judge Giancarlo Massei gets a second vote to break the tie. "

i) I think it's absolutely absurd that people are buying in to the "Foxy Knoxy" nickname earned on the football/soccer pitch. My US friends are astounded by this as they know full well where the nickname came from back in 2007. History is changing before their very eyes.

ii) Clinton has had to give a "diplomatic" answer to the Washington Senator. It's not as if she can say "I really don't care" now is it? She must always "express deep concern" at the plights of Americans abroad.

This has probably been linked already, but there are interesting points here about some of the myths which have developed.

true justice for Meredith Kercher

There is a lot of information which doesn't seem to show elsewhere.

I realise it has been a terrible frenzy of media coverage, bias depending on which country you are in, but that doesn't mean they are not guilty.

It's not all about the DNA it seems, there are many questions which have not been answered by the defense.

It seems some people here apparently know more about the case and the evidence presented than the actual jury who were there throughout the trial.

Isn't the internet wonderful!

I have read numerous reports about the forensic evidence and cannot believe that it would be possible to get a guilty verdict based on that. Obviously no-one can truly know what really happened that night, but my money too would on be Guede acting alone.

The sex game gone wrong was a hypothesis put up really early in the process before evidence was fully gathered/ evaluated or suspects fully interrogated.There seems to be an attempt to make the evidence face the hypothesis rather than the other way round.

Somewhere I read that, after Guede was arrested they should have stopped, and restarted the investigation....

Janos, I don't know if you were refering to me?

I apologise if that's how it came across, I was just struck by the amount of people saying there seemed to be no evidence. Of course, all we are able to do is look at what is on the internet, as we were not in the court as you rightly say.

"It seems some people here apparently know more about the case and the evidence presented than the actual jury who were there throughout the trial."

I think really it's more that people hve listened to and read about BOTH sides of the case and some people feel like the defence did manage to show that much of the Evidence presented wasn't conclusive.

Certaily the internet can help people research some of the information available RE DNA.