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The sad case of Meredith Kercher

933 replies

FreeGeorgeJackson · 03/12/2009 18:11

I feel for her parents. The trial seems to have gone on for ages doenst it?
I cant see ( form what i read) how kNox will get off.

OP posts:
DuelingFanjo · 05/12/2009 18:38

Media repots from the public open trial.

I don't see how this is distasteful at all.

Plenty of people here have alreay demonstrated that they judge someone guilty based upon untruths and speculation with no regard for the real facts of the case. I find that much more distasteful than the posters who have done their research into the facts of the case.

Nancy66 · 05/12/2009 18:39

spicemonster - it's not really the same as the McCann case. Nobody was ever charged.

Here there was a trial, evidence in the public domain and a verdict.

noddyholder · 05/12/2009 18:42

If she wasn't there where was she?If she had been elsewhere she would not have been arrested.

DuelingFanjo · 05/12/2009 18:43

"So why did she say she had her fingers in her ears to block out the screaming?"

"One technique police use is to ask a suspect to describe what could have happened, or to imagine hypothetical scenarios. That is what they did with Amanda. She was questioned many times in the days following Meredith Kercher's murder, and she consistently told the same story ? the truth.

But four days after the murder, in the pre-dawn hours of November 6, 2007, the questioning became much more aggressive in tone, and Amanda found herself in a situation she had no idea how to handle. She was shut up in a room at a police station, thousands of miles from home, confronted by angry police who were accusing her of a terrible crime in a language she had only begun to learn.

The police grilled her, again and again, about an exchange of text messages between her and the man she worked for, Patrick Lumumba. They insisted that the two of them made plans to meet on the night of the murder.

Amanda denied it. They told her she was lying.

They told her they had proof she was at the scene of the crime ? a lie.

They told her she would go to prison for the next 30 years, and would never see her family again.

Finally, after a long and grueling interrogation, she yielded to police demands by describing an imaginary dream or vision. In this vision, she was in the kitchen covering her ears to block out screams while the man she worked for, Patrick Lumumba, was in Meredith's bedroom.

It was completely untrue, but it was what the police wanted to hear.

As Perugia's chief of police told Newsweek magazine, "she buckled."

A few hours later, after Amanda got some rest and had time to think, she wrote a note to the police in which she attempted to reconcile what she had said with what she thought was the truth. She wrote:

'In regards to this "confession" that I made last night, I want to make clear that I'm very doubtful of the verity of my statements because they were made under the pressures of stress, shock and extreme exhaustion. Not only was I told I would be arrested and put in jail for 30 years, but I was also hit in the head when I didn't remember a fact correctly. I understand that the police are under a lot of stress, so I understand the treatment I received.

However, it was under this pressure and after many hours of confusion that my mind came up with these answers. In my mind I saw Patrik in flashes of blurred images. I saw him near the basketball court. I saw him at my front door. I saw myself cowering in the kitchen with my hands over my ears because in my head I could hear Meredith screaming. But I've said this many times so as to make myself clear: these things seem unreal to me, like a dream, and I am unsure if they are real things that happened or are just dreams my head has made to try to answer the questions in my head and the questions I am being asked. The police have told me that they have hard evidence that places me at the house, my house, at the time of Meredith's murder. I don't know what proof they are talking about, but if this is true, it means I am very confused and my dreams must be real'.

Obviously, Amanda was thoroughly confused, but the police didn't seem to care. As soon as they got her to tell them what they wanted to hear, they went out and arrested Lumumba with no further questions asked. But later on, when it turned out that Lumumba was innocent and Amanda's statement was as unreliable as she herself said it was, they charged her with making a false accusation.

Georgimama · 05/12/2009 18:43

What I find distasteful is how convinced so many of the back seats criminologists on this thread are that they are not guilty. I have made no assessment of the evidence because I haven't read all or most of the media reports. However I do know that the people who convicted them - the jury - heard all of the evidence as presented by both sides, in court.

DuelingFanjo · 05/12/2009 18:45

"'In regards to this "confession" that I made last night, I want to make clear that I'm very doubtful of the verity of my statements because they were made under the pressures of stress, shock and extreme exhaustion. Not only was I told I would be arrested and put in jail for 30 years, but I was also hit in the head when I didn't remember a fact correctly."

DuelingFanjo · 05/12/2009 18:46

what she said in court

goodbyesunhellomoon · 05/12/2009 18:47

"Plenty of people here have alreay demonstrated that they judge someone guilty based upon untruths and speculation with no regard for the real facts of the case. I find that much more distasteful than the posters who have done their research into the facts of the case".

It's called speculating and I don't appreciate being called idiotic for that DJ (you're taking yourself a bit too seriously over this I think)

I said that I thought she was guilty at first, because I thought her conduct was inappropriate, something echoed by lots and lots of people, whether here on MN, in RL or actually involved directly with the case.

But I've also said that the evidence against her appears weak.

I think she at best has a personality disorder and at worst is guilty of murder.

Georgimama · 05/12/2009 18:48

"She was shut up in a room at a police station, thousands of miles from home, confronted by angry police who were accusing her of a terrible crime in a language she had only begun to learn."

She was under arrest on suspicion of murder. What do you think they should have done with her?

This happens to foreigners in this country every day. Don't see many threads about that, do we? As I said previously, there are clearly some people who believe the same rules shouldn't apply to the pretty people.

BitOfFun · 05/12/2009 18:52

I don't think that's fairly applied to DF though. Georgimama. I think she is making the point that people can come up with all sorts under pressure after little sleep etc etc. Dodgy confessions are extracted quite often from what we know of the Birmingham Six and many other cases.

noddyholder · 05/12/2009 18:52

We are all speculating as none of us really know.It is called having an opinion on a high profile case I don't think anyone here is claiming to 'know'.In most of these cases we all have our own hunch but that is just human nature and there is nothing concrete in it

Nancy66 · 05/12/2009 18:55

DL - you're starting to come across as one of those loons that marries men on death row.

nothingofthesort · 05/12/2009 19:00

Here is an interesting bit of reading from a "human lie detector" who's analysing Knox's statements right at the beginning,

eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2007/11/amanda-knox.html

And then over a year later,

eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2009/04/amanda-knox-statement.html

DuelingFanjo · 05/12/2009 19:01

"She was under arrest on suspicion of murder. What do you think they should have done with her?"

was she?

I wasn't aware she had been arrested on suspicion of murder at that point, I thought she was arrested after she made the 'statement'? but I probably need clarification on this.

At the very least they should have got her a lawyer.

Wineonafridaynight · 05/12/2009 19:02

I have been following this case quite closely and something doesn't sit right with me in relation to it being Amanda and Raffelo (sorry if I haven't spelt that right!) who did it.

Someone who knows the italian legal system better than me (I don't know it at all) could you tell me if there will be more evidence released to the media that the jury have only been privy to up to now? On current evidence I can't see how they were convicted but would be interested to know if there was other stuff that we don't know about.

I feel awful for Meredith's family - I can't imagine what this must be like for them and how you begin to move on from something like this. I knew a couple of people who knew her - not closely but still knew her. One friends daughter went to gymnastic classes with her when they were young. Another friends sister went to university with her - they weren't friends as such but hung about with the same people so went on nights out together. I guess that has made me follow this case or be a bit more aware of this case than I would have others.

I also have sympathy for the families of the convicted as well - particularly the youngest sister of Amanda. She was only 12 when this happened - imagine making sense of something like this at that age!

It is just awful for all involved. I don't feel that at present the evidence in the public domain is clear enough pointing in one direction, but am assuming there must be more that we have not yet heard about.

sorry - I'm rambling!

DuelingFanjo · 05/12/2009 19:05

If by DL you mean me. I am married already.

I know that I seem a little obsessed. i just hate miscarriages of justice almost as much as I hate factually incorrect statements dressed up as the truth.

bibbitybobbityhat · 05/12/2009 19:06

We don't like it when people who have been accused of murder act "inappropriately": Joanne Lees, Claus von Bulow, Lindy Chamberlain. There was intense speculation about all of these people because their behaviour in court was interpreted as odd.

bibbitybobbityhat · 05/12/2009 19:09

What I find very hard to accept is the people here who do not question at all that they are guilty. Why don't you have a chink of doubt? You weren't in the court room either.

DuelingFanjo · 05/12/2009 19:11

I have questioned that they might be guilty you know, just not here. As I have said earlier I learned about this case only recently and I went into it with no idea of any of the evidence. it is only through reading so much about it, having discussions online, watching court footage and reading relevant sites that i have come to the conclusion that they should not have been found guilty.

At the very least it was not proven beyond reasonable doubt!

DuelingFanjo · 05/12/2009 19:13

very interesting blog nothingofthesort.

again her statement

I hope people who believe she is guilty read those blogs and listen to the audio.

Lulumama · 05/12/2009 19:14

why is it so wrong to be convinced of their innoncence but not so wrong to be convinced of their guilt?

too much about this stinks

she was tried more on her personality and her looks

there seems to be massive discrepncies in evidence and issues with her being forced to confess

she might have killed meredith kercher, with hr accomplices, but it does not appear to me to be beyond reasonable doubt

how could hte jury not be swayed by all the media stuff before and during the trial if they were privy to it.. imagine the furore if they had returned a verdict of innocent?

DuelingFanjo · 05/12/2009 19:15

and read those blogs also listen to the audio.

spicemonster · 05/12/2009 19:15

What I meant vis Maddy is that there is the same level of prurience apparent on the threads. A sort of thrill about discussing salacious details about which you know nothing other than media reports or stuff posted on the internet by interested parties.

bibbitybobbityhat · 05/12/2009 19:18

Yes, I know you have Fanjo! I'm not talking about you. I have doubts too. But there seem to be a lot of posters who have no doubt whatsoever, which I find odd, as they were not on the jury .

DuelingFanjo · 05/12/2009 19:20

I could bang on about this trial for years. i think I had better stop for a while now