This whole EU rebate argument with the bl**dy french - why precisely do we stay in the EU

[handlemecarefully]

Ha ha! I'm going to get told off now for being francophobic. Guess it was a bit 'norty'

So anyway - I understand that we are the second largest contributor to the EU (after Germany) but get the least in return (in terms of subsidies etc). Since 1994 we have contributed £23,956bn compared to France's £10,537bn, and the lovely Mr Chirac wants to see the scales tip against us even further by arguing that our rebate (the only decent thing Thatcher ever did)ceases. If our rebate ends we will be paying 15x as much as France.

So my question is - why do we stay in Europe. What advantages does it confer to us as a nation? (I'm sure that there must be some - I'm just a bit ignorant on these matters)

It would depend on the tone of voice he used as well - is it tongue in cheek or aggressive?

I read HMC as being tongue in cheek. Had I read it as aggressive, I would have been offended. I suppose that's the problem with written communication - the tone of voice is decided by the reader, not the writer. Unlike in conversation.

caligua - you're bl*dy annoying, now p*s off!

I don't seriously think that HMC was being racist as I 'know' she's not IFYKWIM. But do think it was probably unnecessary and if I was french myself would be offended by it.

so moving on. fwiw here is my v unscientific and unfactual pov on europe:\

i think it is in principle a good thing. this is based mostly on the fact that i hate nationalism.

i also think it has a chance of being a balance to US superpower (if blair would let it).

i want to be a citizen of the world, but europe will do for now.

i think the CAP is crap. i think that it is heinous that farmers are paid to destroy foodstuff and crops. i think it's dreadful that we pay lipservice to a free market until african farmers knock on our door with great produce.

i think the rebate debate is a total diversionary side show so that the focus moves away from the disastrous no votes against the constitution. i honestly wouldn't be surprised if chirac and blair hadn't cooked up the arguement between them.

Spot on Caligua - tongue in cheek. I would have thought that the opening line of my opening post would have made that pretty obvious - especially the use of the non-word 'norty' used to denote levity.

Ah well, keep the brickbats coming you perfect, perfect people

Yes, me too. I've read HMC's posts enough to know she's not a bigot in general and attacking a nation is not the same as attacking a race. Apart from anything else because in most cases, as in this one, the thing being attacked is the government, not the people (I for example would never hesitate to say "bloody Americans" after reading about their latest aggressions).

OTOH I do normally get annoyed with people who talk about "spikey french bastards" or whatever because that is about the people. It's still not the same as racism though.

why no apology then HMC if it was tongue in cheek?

(that "me too" was in response to Caligula's post saying she read the title as tongue in cheek if anyone cares)

thanks senora

for the record, I do regret upsetting ggg and frenchgirl by an ill considered off the cuff remark

I did apologise frenchgirl?

I didn't do it immediately because I was initially branded a racist - which given that I have experienced racism first hand (had a previous Asian fiance before current Mr HMC)totally incensed me.

I would have retracted much sooner if it wasn't for that.....

Also I would like to say that the french people I know (all 3 of them) are among the friendliest and nicest people I know.

I think their reputation for being unfriendly comes from a few obnoxious parisian holiday makers (dh met one in Madagascar and he was told something like "do not murder my mother tongue with your pathetic English pronunciation"). That's highly unfair though - imagine if we british were judged by the actions of all of our obnoxious holiday makers?

That's highly unfair though - imagine if we british were judged by the actions of all of our obnoxious holiday makers?

ermmmmm - we quite frequently are!!!!

Well yes, the french chef at my favourite restaurant Clos du Marquis, is lovely - as is his food - as is his jack russell

gwenick, I know. It was a weak attempt at dry humour.

should we all do a list of 'the french people we know and love'
my mum's a french teacher but not sure that qualifies...

SP -

Did someone say Bloody Americans? SHOCK... HORROR... I've never been so insulted.

Just kidding!

So sorry to see I missed a good row over the bloody French (government).

apology accepted gratefully HMC, was having my lunch.

I'm sitting here thinking about starting either a "please list everything you love about the French" or "please list everything you hate about the French" thread.

Hmm. Will I or won't I...

Could be wrong here but I think that alot of British people would be the first to admit that they can "bloody" on a whole host of occasions. We are a fairly self-deprecating lot thesedays (apart from a small minority of bigots).
I'm not justifying HMC's use of the term but just saying it may not be as agressive as it has been interpreted.
Secondly, I think we Brits have never forgiven the French for being the only country to successfully invade us in the last thousand years!!!!
Thirdly, thought all countries took the piss out of each other to a certain extent for the national habits they find perculiar. Am I correct in thinking that the French call the English Les Rosbifs, think we all have sex in our pyjamas and eat awful food? (Or maybe that is just my own very peculiar French friends?!)

agggggghhhhh "that they can be bloody ....."

Ds2's gf is French (Parisian, in fact!) and she thinks us Brits are pathetic, timid people who have no gumption. She doesn't understand why we obey EU rules and regs - if the French don't like them they ignore them - and thinks we should arm ourselves with tractors and piles of manure to fight back at anyone who annoys us.

Just going to come into this belatedly (as usual).
Don't like to get involved in the heat of an argument. I really don't see that hmc's thread title can easily be read other than as referring to the French govt.
As it is our govts who are arguing.

I don't think a label of rascism should be bandied about so lightly.

Suedonim you've reminded me of a time I got caught up in a strike in France where all the main roads were closed and manned by police and their cars, farmers and their tractors, bikers and their bikes, you name it they were out there blocking the roads with vehicles. It took us 9 hours to travel from Southern Brittany to Cabourg (in Normandy) - a journey which should have taken 3 hours max. It was terrifying as we had our dd (aged 4 at the time) with us - whenever we tried to turn onto a main road or even go into a town (we were hungry and thirsty) we had the police wave guns at us, farmers back their tractors towards us etc. I swore I would never set foot in France again or spend any money there again after that but I got over it after a while.
All beacuse the French were pissed off about fishing rights and they took it out on cars with a GB plate (the French cars were being let through to the towns, main roads,etc.) So the French can be bloody.

inflamatory thread title - typically English!

haven't read the whole thread...........

I'm a committed European - I wish Wales had its own full-blown government, so it could by-pass London and access direct EU aid and benefit from joining the Euro, like the Irish.