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This whole EU rebate argument with the bl**dy french - why precisely do we stay in the EU

178 replies

handlemecarefully · 15/06/2005 09:09

Ha ha! I'm going to get told off now for being francophobic. Guess it was a bit 'norty'

So anyway - I understand that we are the second largest contributor to the EU (after Germany) but get the least in return (in terms of subsidies etc). Since 1994 we have contributed £23,956bn compared to France's £10,537bn, and the lovely Mr Chirac wants to see the scales tip against us even further by arguing that our rebate (the only decent thing Thatcher ever did)ceases. If our rebate ends we will be paying 15x as much as France.

So my question is - why do we stay in Europe. What advantages does it confer to us as a nation? (I'm sure that there must be some - I'm just a bit ignorant on these matters)

OP posts:
enigma · 15/06/2005 13:18

Damn sorry frenchgirl.

If it's any consolation I would stake my life on the fact that if English academics conducted a similar survey re English people it wouldn't make comfortable reading....

enigma · 15/06/2005 13:19

Posts crossed with Caligula!

Precisely!

FrenchGirl · 15/06/2005 13:20

that's OK enigma, I shall make it my mission in life to single handedly change people's opinions of frogs like me
although I don't think it's working today.....

Heathcliffscathy · 15/06/2005 13:24

enigma, hmc knew she might get stick for it, so it wasn't a silly gaffe. but like i say, hmc was right to think that she might have got away with it, as the only people that seem to think it was a problem are those with strong french links. I would find a thread saying 'bloody' germans as offensive etc etc.

i don't know whether hmc is racist or not, and i don't think that anyone has accused her of that based on this thread title.

i've calmed down a bit now, i still think it is really suspect tho. i think it's just as suspect that others are basically saying 'oh don't worry, it's fine to say that, people are just touchy' effectively.

lots and lots of british people have commented to me on how rude the french are (mostly before they know that i have anything to do with france). they say this having just come back from france for a holiday or business trip. they seem to have not inkling of the fact that if you go to a country and expect that the people of that country will speak your language, and get peed off when they don't. and don't give any thought to what a wind up it is.

i have invariably found that if you make the effort to speak french to french people, they are incredibly warm, hospitable and welcoming. i would say that in some cases this doens't apply to parisians as it doesn't to many inhabitants of big cities like london where people are always in a rush and tourists are generally seen as a pain in the ar8se.

i actually sat on a flight back from crete a couple of weeks ago that was delayed, and the captain said that he thought it was probably the fault of french air traffic control (without an explanation of why that should be). there was a palpable air amongst the almost exclusively british passengers of 'bloody french' ness. it is just a total wind up.

as to whether the same holds across the channel, ime many french people are total anglophiles and really interested in british politics/way of life etc.

katierocket · 15/06/2005 13:28

FWIW I agree with you sophable. I don't have any 'links' to french people but I do think it was unnecessary to put 'bloody french' in thread title. I just knew however that we'd get the Oh FGS "what does it matter?" "sense of humour bypass" type comments. The French are a race and people like any other. HA I would have loved to have seen the same apathy shown to a title "bloody muslims".
it's an interesting discussion though - apart from that.

edam · 15/06/2005 13:28

One thing that currently winds me up about the EU - apart from the wholescale fraud and almost complete lack of any meaningful democracy - is the way the commission is letting GM products in by the back door. They've ended the moritorium without any public debate and are busy approving GM foods. So we will be forced to accept them even though the majority of people in this country and many other EU countries don't want GM.

Whatever your views on GM, it can't be right that an unelected bunch of bureaucrats are forcing this on us without our knowledge or consent. And it epitomises the problems with the way the EU is run. Top down, chivvy the little people along, tell them what to do, insult them if they dare to object, hush up any breath of scandal... I think objection to that attitude among the ruling classes must have played a part in the French and Dutch referendum results. But are our rulers listening? Are they hell.

EC nice idea but major problems with how it works in practice.

Gwenick · 15/06/2005 13:33

The French are a race and people like any other.

No they're from the same Caucasian race as the rest of us - I'll agree their a 'nation' but not a race........IMO.

And presumably it's not JUST Chirac that's being an ar*e - I assume that others in government along side him back him up, and I always assume that they're all French, - would it have made a difference if she'd said "Bloody French Government" or "flipping French" etc etc.

I also presume that you're going to tell me that I'm Bl*dy annoying and to Pss off

pupuce · 15/06/2005 13:37

What if I said the bloody brits are very rowdy and drunk in the ski resorts
or what if I said I can't stand the bloody brits and their war on Irak?

Chirac is a law onto himself as MANY French will tell you... and as for the CAP well we may have good reasons to hate it but hey they'll fight to keep it as we fight to keep a right on our tax system.... however they may find it unfair.

Gwenick · 15/06/2005 13:40

What if I said the bloody brits are very rowdy and drunk in the ski resorts
or what if I said I can't stand the bloody brits and their war on Irak?

I wouldn't bat an eyelid - it's well known that the British are some of the worst culprits of 'yob' behvaiour abroad, I can't stand the bloody war in Iraq either!

JoolsToo · 15/06/2005 13:42

so bloody what - its true!

Caligula · 15/06/2005 13:43

bloody hell.

pupuce · 15/06/2005 13:43

So if you were drinking a nice glass of wine on a warm and sunny terrace on the French Riviera, mindng your own business, talking to DH about the day (in English) and the French person sitting at the table next to you tells you "You're Britih right? can you tell me why you bloody lot feel like you can invade a country when the rest of Europe does not support you?"

Woud you be pleased to hear that comment? would you find his use of the word bloody was appropiate ? Would it give you a warm feeling ???? I think not!

edam · 15/06/2005 13:44

Pupuce, in both cases there'd be some truth to your allegations and I wouldn't class them as racism. Because nationality isn't race. If you had a French corpse and an English corpse on the autopsy table you woudn't know which was which unless you were told. And the French can be very rude about us too (that's when I take refuge in being half-Welsh )!

JoolsToo · 15/06/2005 13:44
Grin
JoolsToo · 15/06/2005 13:44

to caligula!

Gwenick · 15/06/2005 13:45

well there's lots of instances that I find the word "Bloody" unacceptable - but clearly MOST people don't - or it would have been used over 11,000 times on MN!!!!

Gwenick · 15/06/2005 13:45

"You're Britih right? can you tell me why you bloody lot feel like you can invade a country when the rest of Europe does not support you?"

Like I said it wouldn't bother me!!

Caribbeanqueen · 15/06/2005 13:46

I was born in France and have French family members living there (I'm British). I've lived and worked there too. I was not upset by hmc's thread title as I saw it for what she said it was - tongue in cheek, given the history between the 2 countries.

I don't think it was racist, I don't think it was meant to offend.

I would not be upset by a thread which included bloody british either, if it was also meant tongue in cheek, or as pupuce mentioned.

But that's just me.

edam · 15/06/2005 13:46

... and I'd think the French person's question about the war was fair enough really although the phrasing is a bit aggressive. I'd explain about the 1000s of people marching against the war and apologise for my awful government... but probably question him about Chirac and Mugabe and blowing up the Rainbow Warrier just to make trouble!

pupuce · 15/06/2005 13:47

Well I would have thought that (regardless of my opinion on the war on Iraq) it was an unpleasant way to address me - or me as a antion!

Heathcliffscathy · 15/06/2005 13:47

pupuce are you 'proving' that the french are bloody????

pupuce · 15/06/2005 13:49

LOL I am Belgian !

Heathcliffscathy · 15/06/2005 13:49

haha! but there is no love lost there is there????

Gwenick · 15/06/2005 13:49

honestly them 'Bloody* Belgians always sticking their nose into other nations fights

pupuce · 15/06/2005 13:50

Grin Grin