Has MN done this?? LUSH cosmetics fund Hunt Saboteurs

[Macdog]

www.lush.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&id=17717&catid=&view=article

[RustyBear]

As I said on the other thread, the person involved has been charged with manslaughter not murder. He pleaded not guilty and will be tried next spring, so accusations of murder are unwarranted.

[wannaBe]

hunting for fun is barbaric. As riven said - can we start up dog fighting or cock fighting or badger bating again?

Don't agree with stag hunting either but I presume that the meat is actually eaten as opposed to the fox which is just hunted for the fun of it?

Animal cruelty should not be a sport, ever. Doesn't matter whether you only get a fox one out of ten times - the sport is in the anticipation of the cruelty you will inflict on an animal - how can that ever be justified?

Having said that, i find it hard to understand how anyone can ever buy from lush - walking past the shop makes me feel physically sick the smell is so overpowering, feel sorry for anyone who works in there.

[serenity]

I don't like hunting for 'fun', and I also don't like fishing for 'fun' (I also refuse to watch boxing, on principle) I've never understood it, and I don't really want to.

I'm not going to stop buying things from Lush (although it's been a while since I could afford to!)

[RustyBear]

Wannabe - I don't think Lush staff are conscripted! I think they probably don't mind the smell, or even like it, as I do.

[starwhoreswonaprize]

Thanks for clearing that up SueW.

[abra1d]

Foxes are wild animals. Wild animals die harsh deaths. There are no old folks' homes for foxes. When it gets old its teeth fall out and it cannot hunt or chew. It grows weak. Crows peck out its eyes as it dies. My bedroom overlooks a wood. Some nights I hear the most appalling screams as one animal kills another and it can go on for a long time.

The fox's natural preditor is the wolf. As we don't have them a hound is the best alternative.

I agree about the terriers, though. Once the fox has gone to earth, that should be that.

[edam]

Good for Lush. Detest animal cruelty in every shape and form. And where I grew up, most of the farmers took a very dim view of foxhunting.

As for wild animals dying harsh deaths, that doesn't mean human beings are entitled to get their kicks from torturing them.

[pofacedandproud]

Posting links from other thread.

Tom worby, a hunt sab, was killed by a hunter here

Other violent and not so nice activities indulged in by hunt people here

[SqueezyCheesyPumpkin]

Good for Lush!

Animal cruelty is not a class thing at all. People of all classes can be cruel to animals.

And it is not a case of where you live. I can live in a city or in the country and still am entitled feel the same disgust. Maybe certain people don't have respect for the countryside but it is unfair to paint all urbanites with the same brush.

The sooner the rest of the UK bans this inhumane 'sport' the better.

[BobbingForPeachys]

Wells aid Edam- sport, and nature: very different things.

People of all classescan indeed be cruel to animals, and if I am happy to take in abused fluffy wuffy kittens then I cannot say oh that's cute but I'm not bothered about foxes because they aren't going to0 ucddle on my lap purring.

It's not sport, it's cruel and unusual punishment for, er, being a fox.

[ArizonaBarker]

Good for LUSH.

[edam]

It would only be 'sport' if the fox had weapons too. It's hardly a fair contest, is it? One fox against dozens of dogs trained to kill and people on horseback who enjoy killing?

[abra1d]

They will still go on killing them if they don't hunt them. Hunting tends to kill the ageing foxes. Shooting kills young, healthy foxes as well.

Shooting isn't necessarily very humane, either. Not everyone's that good with a gun.

[fortyplus]

I don't think the arguments re: badger baiting/cock fighting stand up in the same way because the animals are injured and therefore in pain throughout the fight.

A hunted fox should either escape unharmed or be killed instantaneously. Not saying that that happens all the time, though!

And for RustyBear it is a proven fact that deer suffer more stress than hunted foxes - the RSPCA carried out tests on the carcases of dead hunted animals and proved this.

[fortyplus]

'It would only be 'sport' if the fox had weapons too' - well i sduppose the hunters would argue that the fox has its wile and cunning and that is why its a challenge to try to catch one?

[SqueezyCheesyPumpkin]

If that was the case, it should be human against fox. No dogs, no guns, nothing.

Oh, but then it wouldn't be 'fair' would it because we need something extra like a gun or a dog to deal with the wiliness and make it more.....erm......equal....

[fortyplus]

Oh don't be daft! And in any case there are foot packs. Or is it just toffs on horses you object to?

[SqueezyCheesyPumpkin]

I already said it is not a class issue.

I object to fox hunting full stop. It's a disgraceful practice and I don't care whether you are on benefits or a millionaire, that is not the issue so please don't try and make it that.

My concern is animal cruelty.

In this day and age, there is no need for people to hunt foxes.

[RustyBear]

fortyplus - I wasn't disputing that deer feel more stress, just that the stress experienced by foxes isn't negligible.

[fortyplus]

Now I wasn't saying that either, was I?

I Hate hunting now, if you really want to know, because I don't think killing should be fun, but I don't actually believe it's cruel.

[snorris]

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion but I do think a lot of this does come down to the belief it's "toffs on horses", On an equine forum I use, ones member's daughter was out today with their local bloodhound pack. There were people filming and yelling at them to stop hunting. Seeing as Bloodhounds are only used for drag-hunting and nothing gets killed I think those "antis" were slightly misguided!!! There was no doubt either as to who they were because the hunt staff were wearing jackets withthe name of the pack in large letters!!!

[fortyplus]

snorris I couldn't agree more.

[SqueezyCheesyPumpkin]

I think for the argument to be taken seriously, you have to take away the class issue (which is heavily relied on), and have it debated as bare bones animal cruelty.

FWIW, I saw more foxes when I lived in the city suburbs than I have in all the time I've lived in the countryside.

[wannaBe]

"well i sduppose the hunters would argue that the fox has its wile and cunning and that is why its
a challenge to try to catch one?" And here was me thinking that humans were more inteligent than animals.

[fortyplus]

I'm just trying to present an objective argument - even tho I don't like hunting myself. If you follow your argument to a logical conclusion then why do fishermen want to pit their wits against a carp or a salmon? That's hardly an equal contest in terms of brainpower, either.