Has MN done this?? LUSH cosmetics fund Hunt Saboteurs

[Macdog]

www.lush.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&id=17717&catid=&view=article

here

sorry

Oh good

so what exactly do the hunt saboteurs do?

They disrupt legal hunting activities

i know but how?

They blow horns to confuse the hounds, spray scents like citronella to cover scents and on occasions try to block the progress of hunts by direct action

I'll try to present a balanced argument...

I'm in an interesting position here - I have hunted in the past (30 years ago) because I liked the gallop across country BUT i really didn't want to see anything get killed. And fortunately in the ten times or so when I was out nothing ever got caught, which might surprise you.

I don't like the arrogance of some of the hunt fraternity, but neither do I like the attitute of some of the 'sabs'. I think there is a lack of understanding on both sides. Just because you're a vegetarian doesn't mean that you should be regarding people who kill animals for sport as evil per se.

I strongly disapprove of stag hunting, because deer are not designed to run for prolonged periods and suffer enormous stress. A fox, on the other hand, whislt being obviously scared enought to run from the hounds is not stressed in the same way.

The main thing I object to is sending terriers after a fox that has gone to earth. If the fox makes it to safety after a fair chase then that should be the end of it.

A good deal of 'cover' ie wildlife - friendly woodland etc is maintained to encourage foxes, so that could be lost if hunting continues to be banned. On the other hand, it is totally hypocritical of the hunting fraternity to pretend that hunting controls foxes. It is inefficient where foxes are a problem and where there aren't enough foxes the hunt has even encouraged them to breed! (eg Duke of Beaufort's Badminton Hunt) In any case an estimated 75% of foxes are killed on the roads before they are two years old.

I don't think it's helpful for Lush to try to capitalise on this.

I have seen lads fishing on our local canal treating the fish they've caught appallingly. But no one jumps on the bandwagon to ban fishing because it's enjoyed by working class people (and every other social tier). The perception of hunting is that everyone is a toff in a red coat. That's just not true. There are farmers and some very ordinary people who have one horse and work full time without ever taking a holiday so that they can afford to keep it.

Really good post fortyplus. You posted exactly what I was feeling but didn't know how to write without bringing emotion into it.

I will not be shopping at Lush (not that I ever did, that stuff stinks)

Well thank you

I do think that most people who are passionately anti actually don't know what it's all about.

Well, that's Lush scored off my shopping list!

Very balanced post fortyplus, I agree.

fortyplus - that is generally a balanced account, but I would take issue with your assertion that "a fox is not stressed in the same way" Possibly it doesn't suffer as much stress as a deer, but presumably in your ten hunts you never actually saw a fox at the end of it's run. I have - when I was a teenager, I met a fox literally staggering along, totally exhausted, when it saw me it tried to cross the ditch and barely made it after several attempts. Are you really telling me that fox wasn't stressed? I saw the hunt a couple of fields away, luckily they seemed to have lost the scent.

You can't compare fox hunting to fishing. I am not a vegatarian and have no problem in hunting for food, that is nature, but to go out and kill something for fun.

I agree with RustyBear, how can it be ok to hunt foxes but not stags?

IMO it's ok to hunt for food, and kill the animal in a humane way but I do not see the point in being delibrately cruel and chasing it for miles first.

If Lush are opposed to fox hunting and do something about it, then good for them, you should stand up for what you beleive in.

I can't stand hunting for sport. I don't like fishing either, but at least the fish is usually eaten at the end of it. I'm sure that hunting is very exhilarating for the riding fast element but why would you get enjoyment from seeing a fox destroyed by dogs?
Fox hunters are strange people to my mind and fall into the same camp as people who enjoy watching vile and violent films, a mentality I just don't get.
Hunt sabs don't generally do anything damaging to property or person, so they can carry on as far as I'm concerned. Hunters are devious these days in trying to get round the ban so sabs have to be devious too. Lush are firmly committed to campaigning against animal cruelty, that's one of their USPs, so why shouldn't they fund hunt sabs? They are probably pretty careful to not fund the ones who do illegal or dangerous stunts.

I don't agree with any hunting for sport, how would they like it if the fox hunted them for jollys.

I will still happily shop at Lush, (i spend an awful lot there anyway!

I don't think the issue here is whether you are pro/anti-hunting but that that they are supporting a group that has a history of violent and direct action - there are other groups that have reasonable and peaceful protests.

"Fox hunters are strange people to my mind and fall into the same camp as people who enjoy watching vile and violent films, a mentality I just don't get. "

I have mixed views on hunting to be honest but I think the fact that you think theya re strange people says it all. I know people who hunt and they are not strange at all. Good point snorris

Well I don't mean they are strange people exactly. A good friend of mine has been hunting once and my mum's best friend is a defender of hunting. I don't think either of these people are strange. Likewise friends of mine enjoy films like hostel and SAW, they are not strange people, but the mentality that enjoys watching violence, whether real or fake, is very strange to me.

The people I know who hunt adore their dogs so I can't see that being true but other people will no much more than me Reality. It does sound like anti hunting propoganda.

I think people who work with dogs have a different attitude to them to people like me who have them as pets though. I have a lad in my tutor group whose family have working gundogs and his brother is a gamekeeper. Another boy in the group had just had puppies and was upset as one had died. The first boy could not understand the upset and was quite unemotional about it all. Dogs were there to do a job not to be loved.

the country side alliances view

Lol at this bit:- 'let?s be honest, hunt sabs are not the biggest consumers of soap'.

Note to self....

Must shop in Lush more often.

Hunt Sabs were responsible for the slaughter of a dozen hounds from our local hunt as they led them on to a railway track.