Has MN done this?? LUSH cosmetics fund Hunt Saboteurs

[Macdog]

www.lush.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&id=17717&catid=&view=article

[BobbingForPeachys]

Why do I have the right tos top anyone doing?

Hmm, I have the right to protest at the very elast which is what most Hunt Sabs focus on.

But whether or not it fits an exact definition of cruelty, it does cause an animal unnecessary pain; I don't agree with that. And it would be as I said below hypocritical of me to rescue cute animals whilst supporting the killing and maiming of others.

There are other methods for keeping vermin down, such as shooting. A decent gamekeeper can manage that very well, and most faremrs I know when presented with a fox won't hesitate to shoot or look at the age of the fox anyway.

I don't mind the killing of animals for food (though do restrict my diet these days), but for fun- nah.

The hunt sab in court thing- totally unfair to jusge all of a group on one eprson. Some aprents kill their kids- not fair to assume all do, surely?

[Macdog]

Once again - fox hunting is a LEGAL activity.

[Macdog]

No.

It is illegal to kill foxes with hounds, but the hunting of them is not illegal.

[morningpaper]

I find the strong feelings on this subject really odd (and always have)

All sorts of weirdiness goes on in the country - I've visited farms and seens bodies of foxes piled up a corner where they are just shooting them at night! Bizarro

But when there are children living in poverty I'm embarassed that people give any energy to arguing the toss about things like fox hunting TBH

(and Lush stuff makes my bits catch fire. So I'm not a big customer)

[pofacedandproud]

I find that a bit weird MP, in that case one couldn't ever feel upset about animal cruelty as there much worse things happening to both children and adults all over the world. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[BobbingForPeachys]

Nah, the twoa ren't mutually exclusive, and whilst you will need a long careful think about how you live and what you tolerate in life to make a (justified and correct) stand on poverty and child welfare, it doesn't take much to decide where you are on hunting and suchlike, and stick by that.

[morningpaper]

But it's the ENERGY that goes into this one, small thing.

There are massive intensive-reared chicken farms around here that absolutely STINK for miles and miles when they open their vents once a week - god knows what goes on in there - and yet people put masses of energy into the fox-hunting debate. It's madness.

[Macdog]

I made the legal/illegal comments because of comments MNers were making.

Hunt sabs will disrupt any hunt even if it is being carried out within the legal guidelines.

[pofacedandproud]

well I don't buy battery eggs or intensively farmed meat. If someone started a thread supporting those two I would probably invest some energy arguing my case. I think the fox thing annoys people because all the excuses are so lame 'foxes eat my chickens' Well make the run more secure then. 'people who are anti hunting are feckless townies/don't ride' Er, no When the actual issue of causing immense stress to a wild animal is side stepped. And anyway isn't that what MN is for? To invest a disproportionate amount of energy into relatively slight topics?

[MilaMae]

Will do a big stock up,good on Lush.

I live near Dartmoor and detest hunting as do pretty much the vast majority of people I know. It's hideous and I hate seeing it. To chase and terrify something for fun is just barbaric.

Hunting is not a rural thing supported by rural people it's something done by a few well heeled people,across wealthy landowners land that does not employ a vast amount of people.

I live in a large town near Dartmoor and know nobody that relies on hunting for work.It annoys me when people say oh anti hunt people just don't understand country folk-total tosh. The vast majority of decent country folk think that chasing a defenseless animal for miles with a pack of braying hounds is actually totally and utterly cruel however said fox meets his end.

[ZephirineDrouhin]

I blame The Belstone Fox.

Obviously banning foxhunting doesn't do much for foxes. If we really wanted to do something useful to alleviate the suffering of foxes and other wild animals we would cut the speed limit on the roads.

It is important symbolically though. We don't mind too much if foxes are killed under cover of darkness by traps, stony-faced pest controllers or careless drivers because it seems an inevitable part of modern life, and nobody is rubbing our faces in it so we don't have to think about much it anyway. Hunting on the other hand looks too much like a celebration of cruelty. (And we have the X-Factor for that nowadays.)

I think we are fairly uncomfortable with our relationships with animals. One the one hand we keep them as pets, anthropomorphise them relentlessly, and generally would like to treat the fluffier ones as we treat our own children if we could. On the other hand we eat them, keep them in cages, wear their skins, experiment on them, feed them to each other, and kill the less useful ones to protect the more useful. It is almost impossible to come to a consistent moral viewpoint on animal welfare. I am sure that it is our own moral discomfort arising from this inconsistency that fuels much of the anger towards hunting, which is in essence a very ostentatious and rather nostalgic display of that subjugation of animals which makes our lives what they are. If hunting stops altogether, it won't stop us inflicting enormous amounts of suffering on animals for our own convenience, but at least we won't have to suffer the indignity of being reminded of it by poshos in red coats galloping about and blowing their tiny trumpets.

[pofacedandproud]

at we have X factor for that nowadays.

I was wondering about this Zeph, we have a very uncomfortable relationship with wild animals, especially wild predatory animals, and they are always seen as a conflict and threat to farming. Badgers are culled even though it is still unproven that they are transmitting TB to cows [rather than the other way around] foxes are seen as a thread to chicken stocks. Myxomatosis was introduced in Australia in the fifties to control the rabbit population.

We don't have wolves or bears in this country any more [though there are rumours wolves have been reintroduced in Scotland?] because presumably they are a danger to people in a small over populated country, but there has to be some acknowledgement that wild animals cannot just be a nuisance that needs to be eradicated, we also have to recognise a healthy balance which involves some sacrifice on our part.

[Missy8c]

I can't believe the number of pro-hunt comments on this thread. Do you freaks enjoy a good bullfight as well? There is no excuse for animal abuse and sometimes direct action is the only way forward. I can't bear the hypocrisy of so-called animal lovers who will treat their dog like royalty and yet condone chasing a defenceless fox until it meets a grizzly death as it sinks into total fear and exhaustion. What the hell gives human beings the right to use other species for their own gain, be it food or 'sport'?

I don't imagine that many of the pro-hunt group would shop in Lush anyway. Surely they would prefer to line the pockets of the likes of L'Oreal or Proctor and Gamble for their toiletries so they can ensure that some animal has suffered along the way to produce it.

[pottycock]

Only fuckwits go hunting.

Don't condone violence in any shape or form.

[ZephirineDrouhin]

"What the hell gives human beings the right to use other species for their own gain, be it food or 'sport'"

It's a good question, Missy. I have no idea what the answer is, but we all do it one way or another.

[PotPourri]

I don't get hunting. But I also don't know why Lush are getting involved. They make soap, and it isn't that natural either as loads of their products have SLS and parabens etc. They should stick to what they know imho. They're hardly the UN or somethin

[starwhoreswonaprize]

Missy, I love your post.

[Missy8c]

Thanks

[Bessie123]

Yeah, Go, Missy.

And yay for Lush.

[Morloth]

I don't mind hunting, but hell I don't mind a bit of sabotage either (I expect it makes the hunt even more challenging, just don't bitch if you get shot accidentally if you are fucking around near people with guns).

I really like Lush products and don't care about hunting enough to boycott them for supporting saboteurs. I suspect a lot of people feel similarly and of course Lush are allowed to spend their money where they like.

[fortyplus]

'Only fuckwits go hunting' says pottycock... My... that argument must have exercised your grey matter! (You fuckwit)

[Morosky]

I don't think there is any need to call anyone a fuckwit or freak. By all means disagree but there is no need to be so rude.