Article in the Telegraph about kids starting school and not being potty trained.

[wintera]

I read this in the paper this morning and thought it was an interesting article.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/primaryeducation/5956231/Pupils-start-school-still-in-nappies.html

Depends so much on teh individual child. Dd1 was easier to potty train than dd2.

I find it depressing that some teachers even need to be told that they need to change children. Even if 'lazy parents' can't be arsed to train children, then teachers will sit back and punish the children for it, will they? I'm sure most decent teachers see this as part and parcel of their role, but I have come across one or two who seemed to think they were too 'good ' to care for children in this way.

One teacher (who was actually very nice in other ways) moaned at a poor mother of a SN child for ages until the mother snapped and pointed out that all her other five children had achieved vontinence by the age of 2, so why did she think she was keeping this one in nappies? It still didn't stop the whining.

This is an interesting debate, and I blame it on the nappy manufacturers. My youngest is 14 and both he and his brother were considered "late" because they weren't trained until they were almost 2!

But back then (and I'm talking 1997 and 1998 - not the dark ages!) I struggled to fasten the biggest nappy that Pampers produced, and they weren't particularly chubby children.

However, nowadays (old gimmer emoticon!) I'm astounded by the range of nappies, and the sizes that they go up to!

Peachy, my HS went under too because of lack of SS funding.

Well, it is doubtful that DS1 (just 4yo) will be potty trained in time for starting school in September.

Search my posts and you will see how long and how hard I have been trying to get it sorted .

People do seem to trot out the 'not ready' line quite frequently when I post about our troubles. I don't buy it; DS1 was ready a long time ago, but there are other issues (long-term constipation - now resolved) which I believe still contribute to his incontinence.

What am I supposed to do? The doctor won't help me unless DS has traumatic blood tests to prove a medical condition, and the HV was a waste of time when I called almost in tears about it.

I would hope that being given the information by his preschool, that the school would support and look after him appropriately (although he can and will change himself)

I should add that DS1 has been in washable nappies from birth and only moved into disposable pull-ups at night at 3yo when he outgrew the largest size available...so much for them being uncomfortable in wet terry eh?

Can someone please reassure me that at some point DD will show an interest in not walking round stinking and being wet? We're potty training and she just doesn't seem to care or notice when she's wet

We've tried ditching nappies entirely, pull ups (work of the devil, she can't pull them up or down and says 'I did a widdle on the princess mummy' with a smile ), going naked, wearing real nappies, spending much of the day on a potty/loo. But she's just not interested.

Now she's 2.10 and we've been trying for ooh 10 months so far. Far from lazy. We tried for a month, stopped for a month and for the last two months have been trying continually - but the nursery were no bloody help as she was only there two mornings a week and would just change her at 'changing time' regardless of if she was wet or dry - they also didn't do pottys and she wouldn't do toilets!

She's starting preschool next month. I am at a loss of how to move her on from this apathy. Will peer pressure kick in or will she just get it at some point?

I do think that peer pressure works when they go to school.

All the potty trained French children I see going to school aren't perfectly trained - as in, they aren't independent and need help with buttons and clothing, poo wiping, need reminders for the loo etc. But peer pressure really helps with these things - when they see their friends go to the loo independently, wipe, pull up their own trousers/tights etc, they want to too.

@growing out - you don't know my MIL! that presumption is based on a detailed knowledge of how she goes about things.

also - it wasnt luck, i worked very hard at PT and stuck at it. DD was not easy.

Which is why, when i went on a forum for advice, being told to give up was unhelpful, and yes, motivated by an attitude encouraged by nappy manafacturers out to make money out of parents.

why, when something has gone well for another parent, do we call them smug? god knows its best to be pleased about whatever goes right, we won't be pleased when it goes wrong!

'and says 'I did a widdle on the princess mummy' with a smile' she and I sahre a SOH, good kid

Peer pressure, as BonsoirAnna says (I cant type BA without thinking A-Team so have to name her in longhand) is great. Give her a week or two to pick up on it, then take her shopping for some new fancy pants (no doubt in whatever craze is new in schools this term).

oneopinionated you may well be right about your MIL, as you say we don't know her, and sounds like you grafted with your DD so fair play. Its worth remembering though that at the very least popular belief is that boys are later to train- no idea, only have boys myself, but certainly paed etc tells me so. So also worth cutting slack I think.

I agree washersaurus - ds has been in cloth nappies and it made not one jot of difference, he's nover been bothered by sitting in his own mess, be it in cloth, disposable of proper pants.

Whomovedmychocolate - your dd sounds very like my ds. He just doesn't care whether he's wet/pooed himself or not. Rewards don't bother him, he doesn't find wet pants/trousers uncomfortable and quite frankly he can't be arsed .

We'll try again in a couple of months, but I've another baby due in November so I've no idea how that'll work out.

Wmmc if I'd been on here two weeks ago I'd have said the same of my DD she wasn't remotely inerested despite me having the potty and encouraging her from age around two. She would want to try after seeing friends go on the potty then would scream and refuse again. But now she is managing days without them including nap time. She just suddenly did want to use it. I have to ditract her initially afer putting her knickers on as she'd ask for a nappy otherwise but then she forgets and is ok. She prefers her own potty so I've been taking it out with us I'm afraid.

wahwah I find it depressing that some parents think it is a teacher's job to change children would you expect your doctor, lawyer or any other professional to do it?
I have 30 children in my class not just one should I neglect their needs to continually change a child who hasn't been toilet trained ?

Someone way down the thread reminded us that it's not just children with SEN who have continuous bladder problems. There were 2 children in my class who always wet themselves and afaik there was nothing wrong with either of them otherwise (I knew them both at secondary school and nothing had been diagnosed at that point, though who knows perhaps in their adult life something has been). Also my cousin was wetting herself both daytime and night time until she was 11 and it wasn't because my aunt was a lazy bitch who couldn't be arsed, or because she had UTI's, they never did get to the bottom of why she had had this problem.

I don't think it's a teacher's job to change a child but it's definitely someobody's at school - when these kids in my class used to wet, afair it was someone like one of the dinner ladies or one of the other non-teaching staff who dealt with it.

It is simply not reasonable to phone parents at work and get them to come in and do it - unless they have specifically stated that they can't be arsed and they don't see it as a problem. For a parent who has tried everything and then gets accused of being a lazy old cow who can't be bothered, it must be bloody awful.

Isn't there a condition of neurological bladder immaturity where the messages that the bladder is full simply don't get processed? I was told that was why our area doesn't refer until 8, to allow for most cases of that to self-rectify.

I know my mother has a similar condition now, and frankly is she doesn't 'self- drain'every hour she's stuffed.

Maybe that's what my cousin had Peachy. She was sent for all sorts of tests, as were the two kids in my class (they were always having time off for hospital appointments). My cousin was also sent to a child psychiatrist. But she never did find out why she'd always wet herself for years. (She's fine now, has 2 kids and no incontinence afaik!)

Well the teacher's at ds1's (special) school change nappies. So no I don't think it's beyond a professional's ability to change a nappy (in fact have done it myself when helping out in ds1's school- don't think I'm any better than any teaching assistant).

I take the point that a teacher might not have time to change a nappy, but I don't think they're some superior sort of being who couldn't possibly be expected to. They're still there to care for the children.

Mrz, if my doctor or lawyer spent all day with lots of little children, then yes. I would expect any caring adult to help a child when needed. IME the more experienced and secure the professional the more likely they are to muck in and do what needs to be done and a lot of teachers are and do.

It's not something that's bothered me, either in my last jon, when volunteering at the school or at any other time.

Time constraints and supervision concerns are genuine obviously (not all our classes have a TA or LSA any more) but on a pure could I do it level, then yes certainly.

funtimewincies - how do they do that???? They do a poo you can smell two rooms away and when you remove the offending pants they are caked in the fricking stuff and yet they are quite happy to carry on playing while smeared in the brown stuff

We held off starting potty training because I was pregnant with DS - DS is now one. At this rate he will reach continence before her.

used2bthin - that's comforting - I'd happily take a potty with me anywhere if it worked (although she is happy to sit on the loo now (with special seat insert)- I convinced her she turned into a princess when she sat on the special 'throne' But she just doesn't seem to give a shit where she gives a shit

wahwah as does this teacher out of concern for the child but it should not be expected at the expense of other children's education.

The princess idea is good! I would rather DD sat on a toilet it would certainly be easier when out and about. She is tending to hold it till we get home at the moment but as we are only generally out for a couple of hours at a time it isn't a problem I hope. Only thing I am unsure about is car journeys of over twenty minutes or so. We don't do many of those though I suppose (no life!)

You're in the wrong job if you feel that way, because it is a requirement of the job. Doesn't matter how any of us feel about it, the DCSF recognise it needs to be done.