Article in the Telegraph about kids starting school and not being potty trained.

[wintera]

I read this in the paper this morning and thought it was an interesting article.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/primaryeducation/5956231/Pupils-start-school-still-in-nappies.html

Athene - that is awful, they way you had to fight for treatment for your dd. That is another problem with late potty training - the perception that it is any way normal for a five year old to still be in nappies has led to children with serious medical problems being missed.

I dont understand how a parent can think it is too distressing to toilet train. I would have thought it more distressing for the child to go to school in nappies and be different from their class mates. (I am talking about reception age children not nursery though)

If there are reasons for a child to be incontinent then that is different and support should be made available. Although I know it usually has to be fought for.

I also think it is a misuse of the dda if no attempt has been made to train the child - I think sure start support woud be more appropriate.

MilaMae - if you came to look at my house you would clearly see I could no way EVER be accused of being a clean freak! PMSL!

"If we all just decided to throw our hands in the air and say they're not ready and all kids turned up in nappies it would be impossible for a normal rec class to function."

IMO if we all just waited calmly till they're ready it would be a lot less stressful for all - and those turning up in nappies would still be very rare.

I am not being selfish. I am following my childs need and fwiw my younger 2 were happy and dry when they started and I don't doubt for a second that my youngest will be. I take offense to being told I should have done it sooner.It could be argued that many "train" far too soon.

mrz - multiple soiling doesn't sound fun - that's sounds like a different case altogether. Just thinking out loud (and I don't know anything about the child in question) but is this just down to lack of potty training? Who's to say that this wouldn't have occured even if child had been potty trained - perhaps there's more to it.

Do wonder if hvs could offer more support eg identify the optimum age,approach parents when that time comes and offer leaflets with advice and support or do they do that now?

free na[[ies here are frpm 7

not because of toilet training, just funding.

I find all this very surprising. Are there really that many parents who do this out of laziness? I am not a lazy person. I sent DS to nursery in pants and told him he was going to have to remember to use the toilet. But, still, he persisted to wee himself. He just wouldn't notice. He would be so enthralled in the dinosaurs that when the teacher would come up to him and tell him to look down (aat his soaking wet trousers) he would look up in complete shock as if to say "Who pissed in my pants?". He hadn't even noticed.

I think hv's do offer support but they have to be approached for it, rather than them assessing children as a matter of course. But given the heavy case loads most of them have to work with and the government targets re vaccination and add in child protection I think this accounts for why they aren't more proactive. Sadly.

Mummyfuss as I said they range so have no qualm with parents changing nappies for 3 year olds if thats what they choose to do. What I have problems with is non SEN kids in school in nappies.

Here in France children must be toilet trained when they start school (which, for 99% of children, is in the September of the calendar year they turn 3).

A few children in my DD's class had the occasional wee accident in the first term of the first year. My DD was in a class of children born between July and December, ie between 2.8 and 3.2 when they started school. By January, it was all over and there were no accidents.

I never hear of French children failing to toilet train. It is not an issue here. How can that be?

start potty training at 2 yrs.....you should have it all sorted by 2 and a half...defo by 3.

What size do pull ups go up to in France Bonsoir?

I've no idea, I never tried to buy any! I don't know of anyone who uses them, either.

Pants start in teeny tiny sizes, though!

My DD used to hold out fine at school, by the way (and did a wee in the loo there), but still liked to put a nappy back on when she got home. She wasn't the only one!

I think that the school deadline forces both parents and children to get there.

I think health visitors aren't qualified to give advice on this matter. That was supposed to be my DD's first point of call for her "behavioural" problem. I took the initiative to go to the GP and get a referral to a pediatrician.

The fewer health visitors I see in my life the less time we will both waste.

BonsiorAnna - children don't fail at potty training in France because the creches potty train them, and they are the ones who have years of experience of potty training many children.

i would have been so embarrassed if any of my dc were in nappies past 3 yrs old (apart from at night maybe)

See I think pull ups have a lot to answer for.

They are covered in Disney characters,made to look appealing and marketed as something your child NEEDS.

Personally I think anybody buying them is barking mad,they cost a fortune and surely make 4 year olds running around in nappies seem more acceptable because they're pant like. They take the nappy shame element away from a child. They also knacker the environment.

I never bought them and managed just fine nobody NEEDS them to potty train.

Not all children go to crèche, belgo! The kind of child that attends my DD's school will not have been eligible for crèche, which, in central Paris, are reserved for those of very slender means.

"They are covered in Disney characters,made to look appealing and marketed as something your child NEEDS. "

I totally agree! We did use pull ups but I used to wish the stupid things would come in plain grey so he/she wouldn't want to wear them.

Nappy marketing has a huge amount to answer for.

you're right mila that they're not necessary- maqde me feel better about putting them on my 5 year old though.

But no, not a requirement- in fact it hink a con, as SN aside what kids neesd to learn is to feel wet. Not everyone wants to use washables and thats fair enough, but they do need to get that wet sensation to really get it, and pull ups prevent that. Far better a clear week and some old pants IMVHO.

Whatever your experience AtheneNoctua Health visitors are qualified (trained medical nurses)whether individual HVs are good or bad is down to personal experience.

I personally believe there is a problem with this, surely potty training can all be happening at a time when some parents are finding out there are developmental probems with their child. The boys I know with Autism were both diagnosed inbetween 18 months and 3 years,
I think it is fair to say that most children without developmental delays could be potty trained by the time they are 3, but who is to know that the ones who are not potty trained aren't the ones who will ultimately turn out to have other little developmental delays.

When DS1 was in nursery there were 2 children in nappies/pull ups and by the time they were in reception there weren't any.

Lazy parenting is not a great phrase IMO, the parents may have other bigger stuff to be dealing with at the time.

I thank my lucky stars that both boys are now done and our days of nappies are over.

HV's are indeed all qualified

but some \reas (ie mine) are tending towards the 1 HV and several unqualified assistants to cover an area model.

So I kinda gave up when ours looked at me and another mum with SN kids in a baby club meet and said 'Well I couldnt live in your houses- yuck' loudly

But if you can get hold of the actual HV they tend to have some advice and sometimes its even useful

i also don't buy 'not ready' - n another forum i mentioned i had some trouble doing it and straight away (without the poster knowing anything about the situation.) someone told me they weren't ready!!

after 18mo they can control their bladder, so are (generally speaking) physically capable of being trained.

any nonsense about 'emotional readiness' (I mean what the hell would that look like?) or an interest (potty is not going to be interesting until you make it so, unless they have seen other kids use it) or even the ability to remove clothes/ talk is bosch.

as i said to one woman 'i didn't wait for my dog to talk before housetraining her '
(a little short, but she had said 'You're not toilet training that - about my pre-verbal little 20mo. )

PT is hard work, and granted, a lot more difficult if have to work and there is no continuity, but as others have said, its just one more thing. Any stigma attached is put there by the parents - kids will happily play with their own poo othewise! (Unfortunately)