"Women unhappier than ever " according to the Guardian

[KingRolo]

Interesting article here

So women's lives have got better in many ways but we're not happy. The article says women's happiness relative to men's has declined in the last 25 years.

Why might this be?

"I hate it when people think they must be super sensitive and caring because they like to hang on to wine corks and A level exercise books as memorabilia."

Gosh I so agree! I am a purger and declutterer extraordinaire and I think that makes me a more sensitive person, as I am not clinging pointlessly to the past but living in the present and preparing the future.

Dino: OK I wasn't taught to think but I was given time to think: there was not much emphasis on tests and getting the right answer and an awful lot of doing stuff to see what would happen

am 34 btw so prob the remnants of lib ed - which I agree was not a good idea for many

Surely it just depends on the children and how demanding they are? Velcro baby who breastfeeds for hours + demanding toddler means it's quite hard to get anything done IME; two and four year old who play nicely for part of the time and join in with other chores is a different kettle of fish and can allow for quite a lot of arse-sitting time as well as getting jobs done.

The wage earner's job is to earn money is it not? The sahp's job is to look after the house and kids

Both parties work one stays at home and works the house the other earns the money.

You could argue that the sahp should then do their fair share of wage earning too if the wage earner is to come home and do the work of the sahp?

Kitty, are you a time traveller from the 1950s, seriously? The roles just aren't that black and white, IMO.

Kathy, all the sahps I know spend time socialising during the day, they are not 'working' all day in the same way the wage earner is.

IMO the sahp's work is less intense BUT goes on longer, that's the nature of the beast.

LOL annie no it's never black and white.

Being in a relationship and having kids is a team effort. Just becuase one of them goes out to work does not preclude them from housework and changing shitty nappies. If both take on the equal responsibilty, then there is no resentment. Resentment by one can certainly lead to them feeling miserable and 'put on'......if you allow yourself to be 'put on'....then thats your hard luck.

Earlier when I said that I had a great dp ánd used a cleaner and said that it was not rocket science the response was erm....no its not if you have a good DP and can afford a cleaner - well my response to that is "yes, I do and yes I can!".......

However a decade ago I didnt and I couldnt, so I got rid of one useless husband who thought that by earning the majority of money entitled him to do fuck all on the house and have nights out.....and I got myself a real man!

It's about the intensity of the work.

Being at home = low level drudge for a lot of the time.

I think it also depends on how hard you know your OH works. If you've got a bloke with a cushy job and who has huge lunch breaks etc then yes, he can do more work at home as he hasn't done that much during the day.

If he, on the other hand, works his socks off all day, then no he shouldn't being doing the housework as well.

If you start breaking down the contents of what each does in the day its pointless. Going ott to work or staying at home are both jobs and require work to be done! I personally found staying at home way easier but way more boring! One was at school and the other slept for 2 hours in the afternoon (perhaps the equivalent of a long luch??!!)

As I said before, working is not an excuse for not doing your share!!!!

Kitty - I agree it depends on the work. Quite a lot of work = socialising too in some jobs!

Effie - You are right.

The liberal education you and I, and probably many on here, benefitted from did many, many children a massive disservice. If you were from a middle class background and were bright you were fine. If not, forget it.

Some of the teachers at my school now coming up to retirement eulogise about the good old days when they never had to do any work and kids basically taught themselves.

We all moan about education today but for the vast majority of kids it is a damn sight better than it was in the 70s and 80s.

'It's not fair getting your partner to come home and do your work, I call that being lazy '

Oh, I see, kitty, from your other posts, that this only applies if the man is the wage-earner and not the woman, not cases like mine where I went to work all day and he stayed home with the children.

Because I don't call men who work and then come home and do utter FA at home 'good' blokes.

I call them lazy cock lodgers who really aren't worth my time, and I'll be bringing up my daughters to think likewise and my son to see how a REAL man and woman live in the modern era.

Amen, K999!

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been said before.

It is highly simplistic to assume this is just down to housework. It is far more likely to be down to the fact that society seems hell bent on having a go at women whatever choices they make.

expat, I think you have stuff to deal with

and no it applies to either sex

Don't we all, kitty. Just some of us don't realise it.

Ah well, I hope they see things clearly at some point

I'm the wage earner in my household, and I do virtually no housework. I do minor stuff at the weekend (cooking, tidying etc). The children are 8 and 10, and dh spends a good part of the day playing computer games. This seems to work for us. dh prefers not to work, and I hate being at home. Looking after small children is a whole other ball game, and neither dh nor I enjoyed this much, so we both worked, and had a nanny and a cleaner (and very little money!).

My view is that working (most jobs, and certainly jobs that are enjoyable, however stretching) is easier than looking after small children, but harder (again in general) tha looking after school age children.

The important thing to me is that both parties happiness is catered for, however individual households work that out.

I think this article sadly does show that we shoudl be worried about our dd's happiness. Certainly I was very concerned when my five year old told me she was worried people wouldn't like her because she wasn't pretty (she was/is pretty, and has lots of friends, but that's by the by). ds has never said anything to suggest he would in any way connect his looks with his friendships, and I do think that is fairly typical.

"My view is that working (most jobs, and certainly jobs that are enjoyable, however stretching) is easier than looking after small children, but harder (again in general) tha looking after school age children."

Everyone has a different view of what is harder!

For me the really easy bit was when DD was tiny and at home with me all day. Since she started school (at 2.10) it has all got much harder. Don't even get me started on DSS1 and DSS2 - since they started secondary school, the parental workload has got so much greater...

I don't thnk this article is really pointing to 'lazy sod' men being the cause of unhappiness. I think it is perhaps pointing to the pressure women feel from our 'have it all' materialistic society, images of 'perfect bodies, hair, makeup', pressure to be the 'perfect mother, pressure to be the 'perfect wife' all coming from the media in the media, as well as financial pressures of mortgages, and the huge amount of debt many people have which is at its highest level in history.

Maybe also now that women have become more equal to men they have also started to com under similar pressures career, work, relationship pressures that men have always faced and are therefore now also more likely to face the same high incidence and severity of mental health issues that men face.

You are right ABetaDad. There is little in the article about housework or lazy sod men. But I suppose some of the responses on this thread do show that for a lot of people their discontent and unhappiness is caused by difficulties arising from who does what around the home. Or, conversely, that they have got it sussed and their happiness derives from this.

The Scottish study mentioned in the article does suggest that boys / men are becoming more anxious and depressed too, just that the rates among girls / women are accelerating faster as females are more susceptible to the pressures put on them to be perfect.