"Women unhappier than ever " according to the Guardian

[KingRolo]

Interesting article here

So women's lives have got better in many ways but we're not happy. The article says women's happiness relative to men's has declined in the last 25 years.

Why might this be?

It's not just women who get unhappier, on average, as they get richer and have more options, it's a regular finding across the western world. People have more of the basics, they have higher expectations. Of themselves, of life in general.

I think there is also a discrepancy, women expect a lot of men, men often don't deliver. Not all men, but a lot of men are not pulling their weight around the house while women are increasingly doing more of the paid work. That could explain some of the relative decline in women's happiness compared to men's.

I expect that same out of a man that a) I do/give in return b) expect out of myself.

I actually feel a bit sorry for boys/men today who are being mollycoddled by Mummy, because they're going to find fewer and fewer partners willing to take on the role of unpaid skivvy in addition to their own full-time paid employment.

I think so UQD.
The Guardian is so bloody dreary and worthy and moany. Can't be doing with it at all.

Moondog, that's a bit simplistic - many women don't know quite how lazy and useless their men are until they've had their first child and it's too late.

Some men step up to the plate when they become parents, some run a mile screaming.Probably you could work out in advance which type your dh is going to be but before you have dc your priorities are different and you're not necessarily looking for someone who'll take care of his own washing and share the cooking.

But you're right we're unhappy because we think of ourselves too much. If you read the article the OP links to it's saying exactly that too.

Interesting to see the domestic tasks theme rearing its head in relation to this.

From what I've read on here I have gained the impression that the men who never lift a finger in the home are like this partly because domestic disorder doesn't make them unhappy, and partly because they know they can get away with it. All they get is a bit of "nagging", which they put up with because they pretty much expect it.

(Conversely, there are all the SAHMs who expect DH to start wiping the cooker as soon as he comes in from his 3-hour commute, and call him a lazy sod even though he has been out at work all day, and who don't get that it's his earning money at work that enables them to be at home, not vice-versa.)

have you got your special stirring spoon out today uqd?

I earned the money that allowed my husband to stay home for 4 years.

I fail to see why that exonerated me from cleaning up the mess I helped made AND help with bringing up the children we chose to have together.

Even now, he works and when he's home we work together to do the chores that need doing.

There's more to do when you have young children. You can't just do your paid work and expect to sit on your arse because looking after children is hard work, too.

If you want an easy life, don't have kids.

'many women don't know quite how lazy and useless their men are until they've had their first child and it's too late. '

How's it too late? It's never too late to call time on being miserable, IMO.

If he's happy living in a shit tip then he can go live in one.

On his own.

LOL at special stirring spoon. I just thought it was interesting that so many of the responses to this article came down to the old domestic tasks debate.

Where both people in a couple work, they should of course split all the domestic chores in a proportion which broadly reflects the ratio of their working hours. It's what we do and it has always worked.

But if one person is at home all day and the other is not, it doesn't make sense for it to be equal. The person who is at home takes on the bulk of the domestic tasks as part of their side of the deal. The other person ideally doesn't sit on their arse, and may well "help", but there is a limit to what they can do if they are out at work 8-10 hours of the day and have a long commute.

I agree Expat [as always, natch].
In what way is UQD stirring?
By telling it like it is?

It's too late because kicking out your man shouting "go and live in a shit tip" and bringing up your children alone isn't likely to make you radiantly happy either, expat. As serajen testified. Always exceptions of course.

i agree with uqd but thought it was provocatively expressed!

I think a lot of you are missing the point of the article, which is a point that I for one do find very disturbing. It's not so much about whether women expect too much of men, or men are lazy good for nothing sods etc etc etc but about the expecations (subliminal as they may be) that society, advertising, marketing etc etc puts on young women in particular to have great bodies, good careers, shiny hair, kissable lips, degrees in astrophysics and a bun that when they take the pins out of turns them into a total sex kitten. The article also talks about the cult of self promotion that a lot of young people today (PB dons old lady specs and pats blue rinse) take for granted - facebook, twitter etc. Of course similar pressures are put on young men, but to far lesser extent I think. Also the article makes the point that young women traditionally (and possibly not just young women tho from experience I think this trait tends to lessen as women get older and more crochety wise) tend to be more eager to please - "Girls are more compliant and eager to please ? that is how they have always been socialised ? but now the dominant social expectations of them are deeply destructive of their happiness" that's what is so worrying.

also talks about this generation of kids growing up thinking they are wonderful/special in some way due to overindulgent parents - must say this is something that has given me pause for thought in the past too...

so not all as b&w as it may on first reading seem

chevre - I am so often the catalyst in the great chemical reaction that is mumsnet. I have almost come to see it as my role

I used to get home and immediately take over the children so he could get a break by cracking a beer and getting the dinner cooked.

In the evening, we shared putting the children to bed and all the stuff assorted with that, then we tackled the chores together.

If you've ever spent an entire day with young children - particularly more than one - you'll realise that, for the most part, going to work is a piece of piss.

I don't necessarily agree, expat. It depends on the children and it very much depends on the type of work.

DW has done both, and she totally, unequivocally thinks being at home is easier. I've done both and I see advantages to both.

So you'd rather be even more unhappy building up resentment and anger towards an excuse for a partner, juju?

Sorry, but that sounds like a waste of energy.

Do you have more than one child, UQD? Because I found it easier, too, with just the one.

With three of them? LOL, especially during summer holidays.

Yes, we have two.

Agree Peanutbrittle, I read the article too and it doesn't talk much about the division of domestic labour.

Well Juju, as grown ups, we sometmies make stupid decisions. Whingeing about 'society's demands' doesn't really detract from the fact that we often have to take personal responsibility.

Pickle, 'society' doesn't make expectations on us. We allow ourselves to be exposed to shit tv and crappy magazines that do this to us. If you don't want it, don't go there. I never touch this sort of stuff but as presently on holiday, I have been reading piles of vacuous magazines which have left a very unpleasant taste in my mouth. People fought and died for the right to vote and yet most young women's magazines seem to be concerned only with who is thinner and has moreclothes than who.It's repellant.

I've got three five and under. It's a bitch without doing all the household chores.

Exactly, the expectation to be perfect that girls internalise and which they can never live up to.

The figures relating to girls in Scotland are shocking:

"West and Sweeting study of 15-year-olds conducted in exactly the same place in Scotland in 1987, 1999 and 2006. When the 1999 results were published, there was concern that the incidence of common mental disorders such as anxiety, depression, panic attacks and anhedonia (loss of capacity to experience pleasure) had significantly increased for girls from 19% to 32%. The increase for boys was much smaller, at only 2%. But the latest set of results are even more dramatic. There has been an increase for both sexes: boys are now on 21%, and girls are at a staggering rate of 44%."

That's 44% of girls suffering from common mental disorders.

yep moondog, i can't believe woman buy those 'what size is kerry ketona?' mags. they make cosmo and marie claire look like literary masterpieces.

Moondog, the messages these crappy magazines and TV shows send out are internalised before we get old enough to wise up to it I reckon (and some women don't ever wise up to it). Not many teenagers have the strength to avoid the Heat / Now / Grazia bollocks.