"Women unhappier than ever " according to the Guardian

[KingRolo]

Interesting article here

So women's lives have got better in many ways but we're not happy. The article says women's happiness relative to men's has declined in the last 25 years.

Why might this be?

Can't for the life of me remember the name of the book but read last year about studies in China showing that the exposion in wealth there in last decade has directly affected the young population, such that their expectations have roared miles beyond their hopes of achievement and this was creating huge problems with mental health and measures of happiness - exactly the 'narcissism' effect mentioned in the study. Whilst it was affecting both men and women, it was disproprotionately affecting women (if I recall correctly) because the men could see a direct link between education=job expectations=life expectations, wheras because women see examples of people marrying themselves off to rich westerners or becomign famous for their beauty etc etc, they don't get held back so much by logical factors like the men seem to. Nothing to do with the women's place being in the home and stuff like that, but lots to do with media's obsession with fame and celebrity and beauty....Studies in China on all of this are particularly fascinating because the changes have been so rapid that researchers have been able to discount other factors in terms of looking at cause/effect of depression related to economic growth....

Other studies have also shown that we in the UK have effectively bankrupted ourselves by same expectations - wheras a family could in the 1950's survive with one working person and one raising the kids, we have all been sucked into expecting foreign holidays and car ownership and house ownership and suchlike, high levels of public service, and state care in retirement and so on, to the extent that we now have to have two working parents just to keep our heads above water, in fact we are now raiding our own pensions in order to continue to finance it (the alternative would be to collectively cut our take home pay). whilst it is 100% right that women should have the same rights to work, it is dreadfully wrong that we as a society have made dual working families compulsory in many instances (through high tax), without at the same time recognising the stresses that come with these busier lifestyles. Places like Scandinavia have addressed some of these stresses through extensive childcare and high rates of proportional tax and other devices to restrict excessive wealth inequality(which effectively limits quite severely the diversity of wealth in those countries) and I rather wish that people could see the potential benefits of a more socialist structure to the economy. But that I guess is another story....

My happiness is largely derived from laughing at it though.

Annie, that is between you and your dh.
Pretty soon you can train your kids to sort it out themselves though.

King, I mean 'puuting an end' to magazines yuo don't like. Not sure censorship helps. I can't abide our already obsessively over regulated sociiety andconstant bleating for 'government intervention'.

swedes - i never had you down as a pollyanna!

There seems to a dangerous seesaw between young people feeling inadequate and at the same time too important/intelligent/special to actually do any work. I find the number of teachers who complain about children (even the bright ones) displaying NO skills of independent thought rather depressing.

If we aren't raising our children to THINK what hope have they?

well I was taught to apply skills learned from one subject to another, and to do my own research. I suspect that years of 'teaching to the test' will have had a long-term effect on how children approach learning

Good riddance then to the SATS and hurrah for the scrapping of the National Strategy - it will make a big difference to how we teach. The new National Curriculum is really geared towards getting kids to experiment, use their imagination, think and be creative.

We actually do a lot on thinking skills in our school. The kids do a lesson called 'Learning to Learn' and we teach thinking skills in PSHCE.

We also do Media Studies GCSE at KS3 which includes a unit on reading the media, looking at stereotypes and representation, particularly of girls and boys in teen magazines.

I am a happy female Guardian reader.

By teaching 'thinking skills' I mean getting the kids to read source materials, decide their view point and enter into debate. They really enjoy it. Children do demonstrate independent thought if they get the chance.

Dinosaur - I was never taught them explicitly either (I'm 37) but I was rewarded for doing them, more than I suspect children doing recent GCSEs etc are.

"But with choices come responsibilities Annie.It's called being grown up.This stuff is part and parcel of the territory. Why does that seem to come as such an unpleasant surprise to people?"

The problem is Moondog, few women now are primed for domestic drudgery until it hits them slap in the eyes. Until you have dcs most women work all day, go out on the lash at night, they can keep domestic chores to a minimum without children around putting sticky fingers on the walls and knocking over cups of juice. It's a shock if you're used to that kind of life, you have the children you believe (because Jordan and co tell you) will "complete" you and find that gorgeous as they may be, they involve a lot of hard work and none of the fun and glamour that people think they are entitled to.

exactly KR, which is why discouraging independent thought in children at a young age (aka primary education for the last 10 years) is a Bad Thing

my kids are going to hate homework time when they're older
'mum, what's the right answer?'
'now that's an interesting question...'

Ahhh - Swedes is Pollyanna! It's the "glad game"...

I don't think I assumed I was entitled to fun and glamour before children

and I would hope few women are taking Jordan as a maternal role model

Chevre - LOL at Pollyanna.

Men, I think, are assaulted in a different and more subtle way by images of how they "should be" by media aimed at them. I'm not talking about hunky Beckham types with bulging pecs and so on - more the idea that you have to be "successful" to be a real man, and that this success is intrinsically tied into your earning power. The more designer goods and "boys' toys" you can afford and the more trinkets you can affords to buy for your laydee, the bigger and better a man you are. It's just as much bollocks as the messages peddled to young girls by the likes of the glossies you've all mentioned.

Well maybe people should grow up a bit Juju.

Everything worth doing has boring bits.

Idon't generally view looking after my family as 'domestic drudgery'. I see it as an interesting logistical exercise which iseasier if you apply a modicum of organisation and discipline [not to say I don't curse every time I am on all fours wiping crap off the kitchen fllor after dinner].

Sorry I didn't see that Chevre had got there first with the Pollyanna reference...

I will make the point though, to get back onto the original topic, that at least in this day and age I have the option to work, even if I can't right now. As I said, I hate being a SAHM, I hate housework, and if I'd lived 30 years ago when women were expected to stay home, keep a pristene house and raise the kids with absolutely no help from their DH, I would probably have killed myself! So I'd have to say that I'm happier in this era than I would have been in the past.

I agree UQD [I am like that bloke in The Fast Show who agrees with everything]. Who'd be a bloke? Sheesh, not me.

I don't think many mnetters are taking Jordan as their role model.

but other women are :(