NIck Griffin tells BBC that boats carrying immigrants should be sunk

[spokette]

I think his victory in the EU elections makes him think that he can reveal more of his true true heinous side.

How long before he starts extolling the virtue of gas chambers?

ok so you didn't vote for them - but you see nothing wrong with their policies !

aitch;..i don't live in those communities....possible?....have there been any problems since the BNP got voted in?

(i will look at your link)

FAQ...i am trying to get you to understand why some poeople vote for them...to alot of people their policies look good..

anyway...what threat are they?...they will never win a general election...what are people so scared of...they haven't got a 10,0000 strong army waiting to take over the world...

well it says alot about the people who vote for them if they think that raising the speed limit on motorways is a good idea

not so far as i'm aware, but they generally target areas with pre-existing racial tensions and exploit them. as well as places with high levels of recent immigration.

you didn't really mean 'what's wrong with this?' wrt to that page, though, did you? what did it say, 'native british'? what do you think that's supposed to mean? who is that, do you think, designed to appeal to?

aitch..it's been deleted

no..i didn't mean i agree with it..what i was trying to do was get people to actually look at what the BNP are saying "in public"....i think it's important to talk about them...i'm not trying to be controversial or anything...i'm just interested in politics..

i can't get your link to work btw..

did you click on all of them?

clicked on the top two..hang on will try again..

aitch...i'm getting loads of porn ??.....are you after my body?

here you go, good ol' youtoob.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=__DdFiV7aT8

as i've said, and as MT has said pretty much, i believe that we're all innately racist in the sense that we're drawn to birds of our feather and take a while to get used to new people. conservative with a small c and all that.

now, if you're in a once-proud community that has been humiliated by a lack of jobs and generations of unemployment, by lack of opportunity and education (please see jeremy kyle show for examples) then i think it's probably human nature to kick downwards at a perceived immigrant threat and to resent other immigrant communities who are wealthier and whose children have more opportunities than yours. the bnp are exploiting those feelings to get on with their primary aim of promoting racism.

i just feel that the govt's and main political parties' responsibility is to help these communities to be better in themselves, to work, to learn, to move socially. not to act like immigrant-fearing pond scum in an effort to buy up votes. which brings me back to an earlier question, which is 'what is it that these people want us to listen to?' because if it's 'better education, jobs, opportunities then i'm right behind them. but if they're just asking for the right to be racist then they should fuck off to some imagined albion.

yikes, sorry, i just assumed one of them would still be working. apologies. the youtube ones should be unsullied.

...no worries...off to youtube!

very interesting aitch...thank you..

lol, there are at least another four parts to that docco. have a look for part two, it should have come up as an option after you'd finished.

Thanks Aitch. Truly scary stuff. Comparing people to cockroaches, going on about how much they would like to bomb/machine gun people coming out of mosques and boasting about harassing and beating up Asians. That's the real side of the BNP isn't it? More like deep south America in the 50's or Apartheid South Africa than a part of "mainstream" UK politics.

If that's what appeals to millions of the voting public then really god help us.

"as i've said, and as MT has said pretty much, i believe that we're all innately racist in the sense that we're drawn to birds of our feather and take a while to get used to new people. conservative with a small c and all that."

I don't think we are racist. I think we are competative and territorial, but we are also pro-social and altruistic animals.

Racism is fear left to fester or ignornance and fear manipulated (The jewish blood rite for e.g). That's why I think people who are hovering on that threashold are the ones the left should be engaging with. Its no good preeching to the already converted.

And there are people who compare us, Americans, and especially Jews to cockroaches. We should not fall for the fallacy of the nobel savage here, which is inherently racist.

i do think we have an inherent tendency towards racism, mt, because our desire to own, to have power etc is so often best served by letting that ignorance of other cultures twist into something more hateful. it's an instinct we should guard against, of course.

and yes there are those who call us worse, i don't think any single person has made a 'noble savage' case for islamic extremist behaviour, however. whereas there has been a good deal of 'what's so bad about this' re the BNP. we've to listen to BNP voters because they're pissed off with their shitty lives here but not to listen to 20 other british voters because they think that the army are killing civilians in iraq and afghanistan, remember?

Well said aitch re. the 'noble savage' stuff - red herring on this thread.

I do think that humans (of all ethnicities) have an innate stress/discomfort response when they first see people who have some major physiological difference from them - skin colour, major skeletal differences (like physical disabilities), people who are exceptionally short/tall/fat/thin. Think about people's reactions to people with albino colouring, for instance.

I think this exists at a primeval, cave-dweller level - and like a lot of cave-dweller instincts (such as random lustful urges or sudden bursts of fury), the only decent and sensible thing to do is to recognise the impulse for what it is and not allow it to influence our rational thought processes.

(This isn't to say that no primeval response has any useful purpose, but I don't think that this one does.)

aitch..watched it all....i'm sure iv'e seen somthing similar when they were the NF...(it was even worse)....i still think it's important to talk about them and try and understand why people are voting BNP,...possible protest votes over the expenses scandal..(i doubt it tbh.....you'd vote for the green party or some other party).....i know i said they shouldn't be feared too much as haven't got a 100,000 army...but of course now they're in europe they could join up with all the other far right parties.??.... i know most of their voters may well be ignorant fuckwits....but ignorant fuckwits are allowed to vote....aitch, i think you asked me something about why politicians should listen to BNP voters, (and what it is their actually listening to?).....that's why i linked the BNP policies, those policies are attracting people.....it's not a comfortable subject, i know that, but it has to be talked about before they get even more votes.

"I do think that humans (of all ethnicities) have an innate stress/discomfort response when they first see people who have some major physiological difference from them - skin colour, major skeletal differences (like physical disabilities), people who are exceptionally short/tall/fat/thin."

I think it is more nuanced than this. Skin colour does not represent phenotypic fragility, where as obesity, 'disablities' and expilict expressions of genetic conditiosn such as albinoism, does. Many peoples first resonse to people of other ethnicities is also fascination and attraction.

Its when people exist in unstable environments, where they feel the loss of some resource - or the threat of its theft - that fear and collectivism can conspire to become racism or bigotry.

The strategies for managing human fears exist on a wide contiuum. Racism is the negative extreme, but there is much middle ground.

That's interesting MT, I see what you mean about fragility.

Maybe it's conditioning - most major physiological differences are caused by phenotypic fragility, so we developed the stress/discomfort response to all such differences?

I do take your point that humans can also be attracted to people of other ethnicities at first sight too. And I must stress that I'm talking about an instantaneous response that wears off pretty quickly. My sons, for instance, were both very struck (and uncomfortable) when they first saw a very dark-skinned black friend of mine, because they'd never seen anyone with that skin tone before - but now they don't bat an eyelid.

You're right about unstable environments too, of course.

I just don't believe that the best response to the possibility of people voting for racist parties is to move towards slightly less racist policies in order to 'mop up' some of those voters though, dp. That's what it sounds like when you say we should listen to BNP voters, maybe I'm misunderstanding.

I just don't think it works like that, it just legitimises it, and makes it seem like 'we all agree' that even harsher immigration policies/ more racism will be any kind of answer to poverty, economic crisis or disenfranchisement (is that a word?).

And so much csaual racism depends on the assumption that 'we all think like this', right down to racist jokes, that it seems vital to disagree, to call people on it, not to say, well we'd better adopt 'some of it or they'll vote for something worse.