This story about the Plymouth nursery is worrying

[crumpet]

I hope it's not as serious as it sounds
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/8090790.stm

Hope someone can remember, dillinger, I struggle with what to tell ds as I don't want to give him the wrong impression that he has to be fearful of 'strangers' rather than being sure he can tell me if anyone frightens him or upsets him.

My sister has always spoken very cleary to her daughters, from a tiny age, told them what is not allowed, etc, in black and white. I always thought she was being paranoid. Now I realise she was right to be so cautious.

My son has special needs and very delayed speech, it scares me how vulnerable he would be in this situation, he could never articulate something of this nature.

Edam - absolutely, I dont want him to be fearful of everyone, just to understand that some things arent meant to happen and that Im someone he can always trust.

I need to say it in a clear uncomplicated way that my son will understand, I dont want to confuse him or scare him even.

Theres a book on amazon called 'The Right Touch:Read-Aloud Story to Help Prevent Child Sex Abuse (Jody Bergsma Collection) That could possibly be the one Im thinking of but I shall keep looking.

I honestly don't know, Riven. Of course we all hope there are more decent people than evil in the world, and this is a very rare case, etc. etc. etc. But...

It would be a ideal time for you to discuss this with your dd's carers Riven.

Why don't you discuss your fears as a result of this awful news-I'm sure they would welcome a discussion.

My heart goes out to the poor parents who trusted their children to this nursery. It must be so upsetting for them.

IMO I believe this vile excuse for a woman may have done these abusive acts due to the power she held over the children as apparently many acts of sexual abuse are due to the abusers wanting to control their victims and have a sense of power over them. Maybe she was a weak willed individual who needed to hurt others in order to feel powerful and strong.
Thats not to say there werent other reasons for it but in my experience this is the most likely one.
Please please remember that this is an extremely rare thing to happen and hopefully some good can come out of a truly horrendus situation.
Apparently the victims were of both sexes I just hope they get all the help and support they need!

Riven - it is certainly a good opportunity to raise concerns over their current procedures for nappy changing / child protection.
The issue I expect though will be cost... who will be funding the extra staff required? Would CCTV be cheaper and yet still offer some reassurance (to both you, your DD and also protect the carer from false abuse allegations).
Not sure the gender of the carers is relevant with young children, though would be with older children (I'd say that once they are 8/9 years old, then carers of the same gender as the child is more suitable).

yes let's all feel sorry for the parents who trusted this woman with their kids and are now scared stiff what will be uncovered, but lets also think of the other staff there who must feel equally betrayed and repulsed - and probably a bit guilty too, that they did not realise what was happening - as far as I am aware there is no indication of anyone else at this nursery being involved and indeed, if enquiries were ongoing I doubt there would have been so much made public so quickly, giving others time to try to cover their tracks etc. Other staff may even have had kids in this womans care, thinking of her as a friend

the whole thing is so sad and horrific

Abusive childcare workers remain rarer than abusive family members. The place children are most at risk of sexual abuse remains THEIR OWN HOMES.
And this story is sounding a bit odd particularly with the level of identifying detail released this early. FWIW a percentage of the Satanic Panic child abuse scares of the early 90s were wholly or partially fabricated and one of the groups of people busily spreading them as far as possible were misogynist organisations (one of the first stories centred on a nursery) who wanted to stigmatize the use of childcare as women should Know Their Place and not be working outside the home.

No more innocence in this world..we hear about paedophiles on a daily basis..kids being abducted or used or of cells publishing sick images on the net..is it the world ww live in or did it always happen but just wasn't reported so widely? I don't know anymore..What I do know is innocence is long lost and "strangers" are even more scary tahn ever now..and yes I agree we should prepare our kids by teaching them as early as possible what is right and what is wrong when it comes to how anybody at all touches them etc..although it is so sad that we have to blemish their simple view of matters in that way ..it is a matter of better eb safe than sorry...
wish we live on Mars sometimes..

If that woman is innocent (and legally she is, at the moment, until otherwise proven), her life is ruined now. We need to be careful.

my empathy cup for the alleged perpetrator is fucking empty

cannot imagine the mental torture the parents at the nursery are going through.

I agree! Shes been charged and all evidence suggests she commited these vile twisted acts. I have deep sympathy for her family especially as they can now be easily traced but not for her any normal person wouldnt do those disgusting things even with a gun to their heads!!!!

Such things have always happened. The world is no worse now than it was. We have the technology now to cover just about every news story and send it round the world in seconds.

And now we generally don't cover abuse up. That used to be the done thing, to pretend it wasn't happening, which is why it's only now that stories of abuse by family members, friends and carers that occured in the 60's and 70's have only recently came to light.

I know what you mean abraid, but i cannot see how with photographic evidence and the police being able to make very SPECIFIC allegations very quickly, she can be anything other than guilty. they must have concrete proof - we are not talking of someone's suspicions or allegations leading to a member of staff being suspended pending police enquiry here. the police often DO NOT release names, particularly in sensitive cases, if their investigation is ongoing and there is a chance the person is innocent -because of vigilanti groups etc

It is actually very worrying that so much detail has been released. Not only does it put the woman herself in danger (please remember, she has NOT been convicted of anything) from fuckwits, but it also endangers her family as fuckwits will probably decide that either her husband or her own DC 'were in on it'.
Oh, and anyone with a similar name or of a similar physical appearance is going to be in for a lively few weeks as well.
BTW this sort of thing has always happened. People used not to think it was particularly wrong: children were property and had no rights.

What do you mean by your last sentence SGB can you expand? surely child abuse has always been thought of as intrinsically "wrong?" - genuine question

yes such evil has always been there just as many other evils but surely with mass media availaible now the evil is even more widespread and hence the demand grows for it..supply and demand apply sadly to such images..
as for whether or not she is guilty that in itself should not be of much concern it is the mere possibility of any worker entrusted with child care could do anything like this and the idea behind it which is so worrying and because there is no smoke without fire we must conclude the nursery has been scene to this horror and someone who had access to the nursery kids did something very evil etc etc..
whether whatever- her -name -is actually guilty will be of interest to the public but that is not the real worry for parents of children is similar settings..

CWE: People just weren't very bothered about it. Children were property. A man's partner and children were his to do with as he wished. They might rasie the odd eyebrow perhaps at blatant sexual activity between parent and child (though probably not any more than they would complain about any kind of blatant sexual activity) but few people would intervene.
Even 50 or 60 years ago, a child who complained that a relative touched him/her inappropriately was more likely to be locked up in a mental home than believed.

'- but a way of asking specific questions and knowing if someone has a propesnity to something like that> that could be done?
'

Not really

I watching a prog about rehab of Pedophiles post castration and it takes a lot of biomed equipment to anayle:could you imagine if we wanted to medically etst every person in contact with our kids (so other parents, assistant scouters- anyone) with a probe that emasures blood engorgemnet in their genitals and analyses physiological excitement?

Your child probably wont ever be abused, but they will come into contact with eople who youca nnot gusrantee are not paedophiles- everyone bar you is one ( a friend was sexually abused for 6 years by her Dad with her mm not knowing)

Risk mitigation is important- ask grpoups about CRB status, spend time getting to know other aprents, etc

But if you live your life in fear you will go mad, so the best other thing you can do is create a relationship with your chilod where your child can approach you and be believed

The possibility of a carer offended has not changed overnight, just our awareness. But it'slike swine flu and measles- another thing to prevent as best you can, and then compartmentalise in an aware way

SGB is right- the details could have been released post conviction if needed, but TBH I think it would work against the rehab of the kids involved

Riven there always ahd to be two carers present to change ds3's nappy at school until I signed a release form allowing one operson (specified) to do it (it was that or I had to go in myself as they couldn't spare two people)