This story about the Plymouth nursery is worrying

[crumpet]

I hope it's not as serious as it sounds
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/8090790.stm

doesn't anyone else think that perhaps because this was going on so long, the owners or manager or co-workers really should have spotted something?

i mean she must have been pretty blasé about it, and confident she wouldn't get caught to distrubute photos which showed her nursery logo tshirt?

Does anyone know why she didn't enter a plea? As a nanny this case has really horrified me, it's the ultimate betrayal IMO. I don't know why but in my head it's "worse" than betrayal by a relative/friend. I think it's just because it's just so different to how these sorts of stories normally are, ie involves a woman who was a carer. My own stereotypes I know but it's hard to get around.

Up until now I've always thought reports of this nature were scaremongering etc and I know that rates of abuse may have not risen over the years just the reporting of them. I would consider myself quite rational but this has really thrown me - and I'm not even a parent. God only knows what the parents at that nursery are going through

peachy, It was some years ago that I did work in the voluntary secter (15) and I know that the rigerous (sp) checks that you discribe were not so strict then. I'm glad that they are now however . Please don't take offence you voluntary workers coz I think you're great!. I'm wondering if it makes a difference to the type of CRB checks etc if the nursery, care home etc..is privatly run? I know local Authority council funded/run places of work have VERY strict checks and it should be the same if privatly run...but is it??? I'd be interested to know if anyone knows for certain .

"i mean she must have been pretty blasé about it, and confident she wouldn't get caught to distrubute photos which showed her nursery logo tshirt?" Well no, because the types of people she was distributing the photos to weren't going to be likely to tell were they? And these are not the sort of photos you come across accidentally, so anyone looking at them would themselves have to justify why they were looking at them, thus pretty much ensuring she wasn't going to get "caught" iyswim.

Maybe Salsmum it depends on which charity you work for? I worked for HomeStart, a few years ago now- 6.

Charities will inevitable vary, of course, but one shoudln't assume that the voluntary sector is less stringent, and my experience of working in the private sector also is that references (as good a check as CRB imvho if not better- best obviously being both) are not always picked up then.

Zebede we all want to protect our children, but I think that wrapping them up in cotton wool is ultimately more damaging than teaching them how to be careful and vocal members of a society.
Our children deserve not to live in fear of what is, essentially, very very rare.

the majority of child abuse is perpetrated in home environment by known individuals specifically parents/step parents/family.

that does not mean i infer home,is unsafe.
it isn't

it just means unfortunarley some predatory and vile people have access to children

unfortunately,there is no such thing as risk free childcare or school

we teach our children to experientially learn an grow, and some of that is pleasant and unpleasant

at some point they will encounter

prejudice
bullies
cliques

to name a few but hopefully be robust enough to learn that most people are fair and kind.but cannot dhield from experiences and things that shape us

tha does harm and diservice to growing minds,emergent personalities

I feel for the owners, staff and parents.

I wonder how many of the over 100 parents who gathered at the court hearing actually had children in that nursery? These things do seem to attract a lot of screaming mobs don't they?

If I was a parent of a child who had attended that nursery, standing outside a court spitting, yelling and chasing police vans would probably be the last thing on my list of things to do.

i am ashamed to say if that was my nursery i would need restrained and medicated to stop me going loopy

sometimes things dont make sense,i dont condone the braying crowd but i kind of understand on this occasion

Sorry can I just ask again if anyone understand the legal side of things. Why did she enter no plea does it mean anything?

She'll have to enter a plea at a later stage - I think it's common at the first hearing that they "only speak to confirm name and address". I don't think it means anything at all other than it's too early for her to have consulted properly with her legal representative to decide on a plea & defence. But I have no legal knowledge, that's just the way I understand it!

this is only commital to trial,she can enter No plea at this stage.there is a further period of 6-8weeks whilst evidence for the pre-trial commital bundle is gathered.

at trial she will have to enter a formal plea

but if she's not guilty she would have just said not guilty?

plea not required at commital to trial stage. The clerk explains to the defendant that she may indicate

a guilty or
not guilty plea or
no plea.

there will be an adjournment before commital to CC trial.where she will have to enter a plea

sm like you I could understand the mob mentality: whilst I don't agree with it, I suspect i'd have been pretty angry had my kids been at risk (if they'd been actual victims different, no doubt I'd be with them somewhere) and it was obviosuly going to happen

I saw the screaming mob and at first, I thought they were disgusting. Then I thought what if it was my child. Sorry, I would have been sneaker I would have got into court and shot them, some how some way I feel so strongly. I would haunt them to their dying day. Other crimes I might leave to the justice system. This one never. poor families. For the grace of god go we.

I usually feel very about these mobs but this time so many people must be affected directly or indirectly, I could sort of understand it

Sorry but I still feel nothing but contempt for screaming mobs. How many of them, I wonder, actually had DC in the relevant nursery? Because if it was your DC and you weren't, yourself, a slobbering knuckledragging Sun-reading fuckwit, wouldn't your main priority be making sure your DC suffered as few lasting ill-effects as possible?
The hardest job for the parents of any DC who were involved in this is making damn sure that what happened here doesn;t become the defining thing in that child's life. (ANother reason why all the publicity is Not Great). That it becomes, if discussed, 'someone hurt you when you were small. That was a bad person who can't ever hurt you again. It wasn't your fault.' and then on to all the other vitally important things in that child's life.

is it evocative of competitive sadding?i can understand this being honest for 1st time i can get a measure of that primitive innate rage that drives people to present.no i dont condone it.my liberal super ego has kicked in,but on a deep base level there is a rage people are expressing

dont have to agree with it,but i acknowledge it

Totally agree with SGB.

SM: Oh, completely. Thick people find some sort of vindication in being more demonstratively ANGRY at an undisputed bad thing than anyone else, same as they find self-justification in crying till their piles pop over the reported death of some Z-list sleb.

get what you mean this living vicariously life expressed through someone/something else

Yes there is an emotional incontinence,weeping and wailing as a sport legitimised eg BB,BGT.Schleb culture

But also the middle class pseudo-intelligentsia are too quick to sneer and snort at the outpourings of the masses as a braying mass.gosh if only they read alpha mummy they'd know the real crisis is finding a good nanny

I'm really not part of the intelligentsia(as you can read). But those of you that are. DO you think that this incidents should not be reported so graphically or in detail? Do you think some weird people get a kick out of these stories? Do you think this gets embedded in some brains and they get a strong compulsion to commit the very crime that is reported?
When I see the cover of the New of The World etc... I feel they perpetuate sordid crimes.

I don't think it's as simple as that starbear, but I do see where you are coming from. When I see the revolting front page of things like The Sun or News of the World, where they seem to relish graphic detail, it does make you wonder why people want to read it.

no starbear some people have the compulsion and desire for control and perpetrate hideous acts.

yes salacious reporting is annoying but it doesnt cause such crimes.there is no cause and effect

you wont suddenly see an increase in alleged predatory NN