Children Assaulted/Critical but stable condition

[Claire2009]

Two boys aged 10 & 11 being questioned about this. Don't know how to do links but this might work

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/7984392.stm

Poor mite. Do hope his condition keeps improving rapidly.

Don't like 'vermin' either but the behaviour of the attackers IS shocking.

Glad to hear that one of the boys is physically stable but god knows how the real victims of this will be mentally when they do eventually have to try and get back to normal.

No I don't know exactly what those animals had when they were locked up but it was widely spoke about that they had days out and computer games etc, which IMO is very very wrong.

I did'nt say anything about locking them up in prison I just think they need to be locked up in something other thana young offenders holiday camp prison. And that is coming from experience I know how cushty they get treated and it is not right there is no punishment involved in it, personally I think these boys need put away ina phsych (sp?) ward for serious evaluation.

But anyway just answering a few questions I am really not that bothered what they do with them personally, my thoughts are with those who have actually been wronged in this awful situation.

I work with Year 6 in a primary school and they are all brilliant kids. Yet more than half of those children have seen 18 rated films and they play 18 rated computer games.

We are talking 10 and 11 years old here, the same age as those attackers.

You wonder, as films get ever more sick, like Saw, and how the computer games get ever more graphic and violent, how their minds cope with this exposure to such horrors.

2shoes, can I ask- if tis was my ds1 would you accet he was vermin or be thinking 'yes but he ahs...'

Because knowing us as you do in mn-life I hope you would, and afaik these boys could also have sn

Rhubarb, I absolutely agree.
When (some of us) were their age, computer games consisted of things like Atari tennis. Now they are more and more realistic, and many parents think nothing of letting their children live in a virtual world where you have to kill to get on.

Calling the perpetrators "animals" and "vermin" is very narrow minded. Somewhere, chances are - they have been let down.

by the sounds of it they are just little shits TBH. SN or not that is too far.

I find that terrifying Rhubarb. What kind of parent allows their child access to horror films or games?

Gosh, I even wondered if the book 'Not Now Bernard' was too scary for ds! Ok, perhaps a tad overprotective, but I just can't imagine exposing my children to 18 rated films and games, and I would be fuming if they had access to them at a friend's house.

Anyway off to hide thread because I am going to get slated for saying what I like anyway, discussion forum... well... only if you have the opinion that they are so hard done by blah de blah.

The abused lose all sympathy and respect when they become the abusers.

but why are they little shits??? (and I don't mean the obvious they're little shits because they've seriously injured 2 other children)

I think it's high unlikely (though not within the bounds of possibility admittedly) that had they had a good stable, loving, family upbringing that they at the age of 10 and 11yrs old are doing things like this.

It makes me really sad to hear how people are talking on this thread about the boys that may have done this.

They're little kids that have probably had the shittest of lives and lived a real feral underclass existance. If all you've ever known is hate, anger, aggression then of course they are going to turn out like that.

I know nothing about the kids but I'll take a bet that they come from a very broken family in the same way that Shannon Matthews did. Kids like that don't know what it is to be loved or be treated well or to show respect for other people or property. My sister works with troubled children and she sees them all the time: dead eyed, no emotion.

If you lock them up and throw away the key and make sure they suffer in a miserable, grim prison cell - how the hell do you think they are going to be when they emerge as young men? Damn angry I'd have thought.

The Jamie Bulger boys got an eductation, alongside intense therapy, one of them is supposedly a very talented artist now. Surely rehabilitation benefits society far more than retribution?

I also feel incredibly sorry for the victims but I'll wager a bet they come from the exact same sort of background - does that make them vermin too?

mamadiva - these are still CHILDREN.

Does anyone find it odd that on threads about "age to leave children home alone" or to let them go out on their own - 10/11yrs old is often stated as being "too young" as they're still "children" - yet when something like this happens they are grown up enough to know exactly what they were doing and no fault is to be found with the parents/their upbringing.

I'm not saying that they didn't know what they were doing, I'm sure they did, but I don't believe they should be treated the same way as a 15/16/17yr old thug (who will definitely know what they're doing and the consequences of their actions)

See this is the crap I mean the entire side of my dads family were seriously physically, mentally abused and majorly neglected by the age of 4 my dads knee cap had been shatteres with a hammer twice and he was never taken into care, so dont tell me all youve ever known whatever because not one fo them ahve ever harmed anyone.

mamadiva - that's awful, I don't dispute it. However it is anecdotal evidence, of course not every child that witness/suffers that is going to turn out to have major issues, but the stats show otherwise.

I did'nt say that if you read my first comment I said I hope they get the help they need but for the sake of them not doing this again I don't really care what they do with them in the meantime.

If that makes me a horrible person then so be it but if this country was'nt so keen to let them off with things then they would'nt be so quick to do shit like this to other kids.

As I said young offenders ''prisons'' are like holiday camps and I know this as a fact I have seen it all, and it is not the way to teach someone they have done wrong.

schneebly and i went to a really interesting lecture really by Professor Tanya Byron . talked about the underclass of youth. how teens are treated like vermin and pestilence.. to be ignored, dismissed, vilified and hounded.

the subject of the Bulger case came up, what she said about Thomson & Venables shocked me. those boys had no idea what a normal home life was, they had no idea life was precious and to be respected. there was sexual, physical and mental abuse, absent parents, violence, parents with no idea how to parent, parents who used their children for their own amusement.

no wonder those boys had no idea about what was normal or right

no-one had taught them or shown them

they were surrounded by violence and neglect and abuse, under those circumstances how could they have been anything other than abusers/ killers themselves?

i would wager the two boys who have perpertrated this crime had similar backgrounds

we need to ask why children in society are being let down to the point they are able to commit this sort of crime at this age

i have a 9.5 year old boy. he does not watch adult films, or play adult computer games, nothing involving shooting/sex/death... it is hard to protect your children.

but it is easy for them to find this stuff if they have no supervision and no boundaries and no adult care

i am terribly sorry for the victims. and their families it is horrific and i hope hte boys pull through

All that is no doubt true and raises serious questions about the involvement of statutory services with Thompson and Venables (who were known to SS well before poor James Bulger was attacked).

BUT the perpetrators in this latest horrific case were in care. Why weren't they being protected from taking out their horrible learned patterns of behaviour on innocent passers-by? Why wasn't society being protected from them, given they'd already assaulted at least one other child?

Edam I agree - useless social services strike again.

yes, they were in care and seemingly no further on in their emotional understanding of normality or right & wrong. it is horrific. unfortunately, a lot of people and newsppers will hvae a knee jerk 'punish the scumbags/ prison's too good for them' reaction and nothing m uch will change

it always strikes me that at eleven a child is too young to:

drink
Buy cigarettes
Have sex
Vote
Drive a car
get a job

And yet people seem to think they are adult enough to be punished, as adults, for adult crimes.

So all the things that can harm them they should be kept away from, yet once they harm someone they cease to be a child and become an adult?

Why should'nt they be punished though?

If it was an adult with SN who had done it to another adult they would be punished.

I'm not and never did say they should be locked up for life I don't see what good that would do anyone but I do think they need to locked up in a YO for a few years to atleast try and stop them repeating anything like this, we need to stop blaming everyone apart from them they have to accept responsability regardless of your background they know this is'nt appropriate.

It seems to be the case that everytime something happens involving a child it automatically gets put onto SS in this case I don't believe it is, I don't even believe that it's because the parents are divorced/on benefits as seems to be suggested in The shitrag sun today, I think it's down to society, because when something like this happens people say 'oh it's fine you're only a kid' what is that teaching them? It's okay for you to kill/assault/attempt to murder/rob now but don't you dare try it in 5 years when your 16 then there will be trouble.

I for one am sick of this mentality and I want children to be punished for their actions this is how we have ended up with little arseholes in our streets running about with knives and guns whatever because they know essentially they can't be touched.
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Why should'nt they be punished though?

If it was an adult with SN who had done it to another adult they would be punished.

I'm not and never did say they should be locked up for life I don't see what good that would do anyone but I do think they need to locked up in a YO for a few years to atleast try and stop them repeating anything like this, we need to stop blaming everyone apart from them they have to accept responsability regardless of your background they know this is'nt appropriate.

It seems to be the case that everytime something happens involving a child it automatically gets put onto SS in this case I don't believe it is, I don't even believe that it's because the parents are divorced/on benefits as seems to be suggested in The shitrag sun today, I think it's down to society, because when something like this happens people say 'oh it's fine you're only a kid' what is that teaching them? It's okay for you to kill/assault/attempt to murder/rob now but don't you dare try it in 5 years when your 16 then there will be trouble.

I for one am sick of this mentality and I want children to be punished for their actions this is how we have ended up with little arseholes in our streets running about with knives and guns whatever because they know essentially they can't be touched.
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By TheMightyBoosh on Tue 07-Apr-09 10:22:24
2shoes, can I ask- if tis was my ds1 would you accet he was vermin or be thinking 'yes but he ahs...'

Because knowing us as you do in mn-life I hope you would, and afaik these boys could also have sn

I haven't called anyone vermin.
I havn't judged the thugs children ans I don't know the facts. My concerns and sympathys are with the victims families at this time.
so can you learn to read please.

Oops sorry

If they are charged, tried and found guilty they WILL be punished.

That is what I'm saying but we need to get rid of this contantly softly softly approach!

They are to blame for their action not anyone else!!!

They were in care because their parents could not cope with their behaviour,