Children Assaulted/Critical but stable condition

[Claire2009]

Two boys aged 10 & 11 being questioned about this. Don't know how to do links but this might work

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/7984392.stm

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/feb/06/bulger.ukcrime1

I think that is just how some people are mamadiva. If I had a kid horribly murdered by another very young kid below or near the age of criminal responsibility in those kinds of circumstances then I hope to god I would still be able to feel some compassion despite my hurt and pain.

I know for sure I wouldn't become one of the 'lock em up and throw away the key' brigade and am sure I wouldn't because I believe in rehabilitation etc.

I know some people don't.

LOL sorry have read that article too.

No no they were perfectly sweet little angels who deserved nothing but love, attention and days out to football matches I mean it's not like they did anything wrong...

I'm sorry but the softly, softly approach is clearly not working.

My ds is 13 and his mate is her to stay for a few days.They went out for a bike ride and to get a MacDonalds (there, yet another reason to flame me, I'm fairly stacking them up today!!) and I was on edge the whole time they were out, simply because of "what might happen". We live in a quiet area on the edge of town, they biked along a cycle path through trees, and they've done it lots of times. But now, all I could think of was that those two boys on Saturday went off in much the same way and look what happened to them.

interesting article Smallorange and I agree with this statement

"The age of criminal responsibility is completely arbitrary, she argues, and 10 is far too young to be putting in a plea for any serious crime. "We have to stop dividing children so that those over 10 who commit crimes are monsters and those under 10 are tragic victims.

As a child psychiatrist who has worked with young offenders and survivors of sexual abuse for the past 22 years, she says that she cannot accept as a proposition that some children are "born evil". "They may be born dreadfully disadvantaged, but isn't it our responsibility as a society to discuss how children can be rescued from a cycle of offending?"

"I was on edge the whole time they were out, simply because of "what might happen". We live in a quiet area on the edge of town, they biked along a cycle path through trees, and they've done it lots of times. But now, all I could think of was that those two boys on Saturday went off in much the same way and look what happened to them"

I can TOTALLY understand why these fears would be heightened right now because of recent events. Completely. That fear will fade as time passes I am sure and you will start to feel better about allowing your children freedom.

Just bear in mind that this kind of thing is not something that happens every day, it's something terrible which is a one off I am sure.

I do believe in rehabilitation Beanie but the way it is put across in this country how is it supposed to work?

I know from first hand experience in one YO all they do is basically sit around and play their games console's and best of all I'm pretty sure it was Manhunt IIRC. Yes the game where you are a hunted prisoner and have to kill all these people who are trying to get you by strangulation, electrocution, shooting and oh yes stabbing.

Yes that'll rehabilitate our youngsters so they are fit to go back into society

I'd love to say I could hold it together but I really don't think I could, I say that ashamedlly by the way not proudly but I think anger would genuinely consume me.

would you really, beanieb.....???
I'm with mamadiva

Actually I know I could'nt hold it together.

Just recalling an incident last week has made me realise I don't do confrontation well when it comes to those hwo have harmed my family.

well, it possibly needs to be changed. Specially when dealing with children.

Are all the children in the place you are talking about in there for violent offences?

It was a young offenders and two of the boys, one of which I know and was visiting were 17 does that make any difference actually

One was in for a sexual offence and the other was quite a high profile murderer by which I mean was all over the news not a killing spree.

I've always tried to allow ds a reasonable amount of freedom, and hopefully always will, but you know what? The fear of something awful happening to him will never fade, and a lot of that is natural parental concern, but some of it is because terrible things are becoming more and more common now, and very little is done to stop it. There is no fear of the police, teachers, parents, and so these thugs know that they can pretty much do as they like and they will get away with it, the law is on the side of the criminal by making excuses for their behaviour and condoning it as a by-product of their upbringing.

You took the words right out of my outh ladymariner.

Absolutely LeninGrad. And with that I must leave the thread.

Mamadiva - the fact that the boys you were visiting were a lot older nakes a big difference IMO.

The thing I don't get is that no one on here is calling for them to be executed or locked for life as has been suggested several times.

All that we are discussing is that justice system and society needs to be a bit harsher on these children as goes the same for adults. The British justice system is a joke.

I see no one shouting 'oh but he did'nt know any different because he had been abused' at the latest paedophile or Baby P's killers how is it any different? Yes okay an adult should know better but same goes... if they've never known a loving and caring enviroment how should they know? It does'nt excuse anything they ahve done by any means.

As I said before though an abuse victim loses all sympathy and respect from em when they become the abuser. So I don't really care what's happened to them in the past, it caused them pain and frustration I'm sure so they know it mucks you up why do it to someone else then?

OK - I'm back.

Mamadiva - what do you recomment? WHat kind of punishment/rehabilitation do they need to be given?

Beanie taht may be the case but it still shows a serious problem with our justice system when rather rehabillitating a murderer or sex offender we pay for them to sit on their arses and play games all day.

Cause that'll help

LOL beanie.

I think there need sto be a serious shake up of the justice system as a whole.

I think we need to be so quick to dismiss every crime commited by a child to bad parenting. Yes it can be a factor but they need to take into account what they have done to truly be rehabilitated.

The easy life in prison and YO needs to stop it's not teaching anyone anything.

No I don't agree with the lock em up and flog em thing by no means I don't see the point in that it serves no justice at all.

What would be justice is them being made to face up to what they did and by that I meana serious discussion has to be had by those involved why it happened. Then get it sorted as to why they felt the need to act out these horrid little thoughts of theirs.

mamadiva - children copy what they know even if that includes abuse.

As I mentioned before my sister works with damaged children. One thing a lot of them have in common is that they shout - they cannot pitch their voices at a normal level because everybody in their immediate environment is always yelling. So the kids do too.

mamadiva - which murderers and sex offenders get to do nothing and just play games all day, with no form of rehabilitation programme?

Do you mean children who are offenders? or others?

Sadly it is often the case that abusers have often been the victi of abuse themselves. And if as a victim they have not been counselled or recieved help regardling their own abuse, they see it as being "the norm" and what is supposed to happen. Breaking that cycle is essential but it requires costly intervention early on.

And I do think there should be more Secure childrens units for crimes like this because mentally they are fecked up for whatever reason, and unless there are more plans in place to deal with such events then brats like this will continue to stick a finger up at the law until they eventually kill someone when they can shout 'ach well my dad kicked the shit outta me so that's why I did it' and get away with it.

Or maybe a few wee years going to the footie and living a better life than they would've had outside before being released with an all expenses paid lifestyle.

It'sa joke.

Ye sI understand it can be a factor but everyone needs to stop jumping and saying

The poor boys I mean think what tehy mustve gone through to be like this...

when no one actually knows if they have been through anything, I mean christ the fact their mum and dad are divorced and she is on benefits does'nt exactly make them abused does it.

But as I said abusees who become abusers = the shit that abused them. And deserve what they get.

mamadiva - I am not quite sure that that is how our justice service does work. Children in secure units do follow education and rehabilitation programes, often more intensive than the ones adult offendrs follow. Part of rehabilitation is integrating them back into society, towards the end of their sentences, before release. The idea of all this paying games, going to football matches IME is just media talk and not quite as it happens at all.