Pregnant Woman Told To Leave Pub

[stinkymonkey]

the nanny state continues

I can understand where the landlord is coming from, though I don't agree with what she did.

I'm so glad I never have to be pregnant again.

I think she should have been served alcohol and I think pregnant women should be served caffeinated drinks.

I don't like where this stuff is heading - on this continuum it's possible eventually that women will be delivered what packs of food and drink they are allowed to eat in a pregnant day.

We are not far away from not selling cigarettes to pregnant women.

At no point until the police intervene is men's behaviour while pissed get challenged. Men (generalising obviously) get pissed and get in fights.

But the moment a woman does something 'unladylike' then it's challenged.

Studies show that when women commit serious abuse against children they get much harsher sentences cos society holds women to higher standards.

This is the think end of the wedge to me.

Well put, Laurie.

Stella and Kronenbourg, for example, are 2.9 units.

There are strong beers that are over 5 units, particularly some German beers.

landlords are entitled to refuse to serve anyone.

At all.

For no reason.

Unless they are discriminating on the grounds of sex, race, disability or other

It seems to me that, in the absence of any other factor, she was discriminating against this woman on the grounds of her pregnancy.

Whether she should be drinking in pregnancy or not is to some extent beside the point, it is not for the landlady of the local pub to decide for her.

At no point until the police intervene is men's behaviour while pissed get challenged. Men (generalising obviously) get pissed and get in fights.

But the moment a woman does something 'unladylike' then it's challenged.

Oh my god. How very misandrist. And incredibly naive.

I do agree with some other parts of your posts, though

The bar staff do not know how much she had to drink, they only know how much they served her. They may well have had reason to believe she had a drink before arriving in their pub.

Given the fact that this apparently up-standing woman proceeded to sit and drink her friends pint after being refused service, she strikes me as pretty bloody cheeky and not in the least mature.

Haha I know her, and yes she did go to the papers. She is one of my facebook friends and has been updating it all week regarding being thrown out the pub and that she had contacted the paper. I would link her to this mn thread but then she might figure out who I was

Message withdrawn

Just a couple of points:

No research that I am aware of has ever established what a 'safe' amount to drink is. Nobody drinking alcohol in pregnancy can say that they are drinking only what will not harm their baby. They are hoping or calculating that it won't but they don't know If you drink regularly and in in any volume at all in pregnancy and your child is unharmed then you (and they) are fortunate - it's NOT proof that it's ok.

Secondly Nancy - you said maybe she was an uberchav...I feel bound to point out that alcohol abuse is not only the preserve of the 'chav'. There are plenty of lovely middle class mums out there who are drinking to excess. You don't have to be necking the White Lightening to be abusing alcohol. The fact that you're drinking some lovely wine at dinner with your lovely friends does not render that alcohol any less toxic to a fetus.

I think if I were the landalady I would have inwardly raised an eyebrow but let the half pint go. Any more than that though and I would definitely have been wondering whether to say something.

Ooh, I hope I am too, for I do love a fanfare return!

Thought discriminating against a pg woman was sex discrimination? Or is that just in eployment?

DSM - that's why I said I was generalising - tis just an example.

Noone says to a pissed up bloke "are you off to commit domestic violence against your wife and kids cos you're drunk mate" when they leave a pub.

But for some reason it's ok to stop a pregnant woman drinking her third unit.

Diffrent strokes ?

Marla, nope, it's 1-2 units or thereabouts 1-2 times a week. I asked my consultant. A lot depends on your weight and how you metabolise alcohol as well.

There is no convincing evidence at all that what this woman was doing was dangerous. And landlords are not medics.

For the record I was on masses of opiates this pg for SPD, and the consultant told me this was the same level as a recovering drug addict. I was assured the placenta does a good job in sorting all this stuff out, and that even with hardened addicts, a lot of the time the babies are just fine. I was quite amazed to hear this.

I am not saying people should go around living it large, but I do think people should be less quick to bully pg women (they're such visible and easy targets, after all) and more quick to give up their seats for them and so on. It's very much a one-way street, it seems to me.

I would contend having a pint and a half of normal lager is a lot less risky than getting bad food poisoning in the first trimester, for example. So are we going to ban women eating in restaurants in case they are pg?? Where does this stop?

NL - your argument does work both ways though. No, a 'safe' limit has never been proved, but neither has an 'unsafe' one. So it is down to the mother to make a judgement, either not to drink at all, or to drink within limits which - to her - constitute an acceptable risk.

It isn't illegal to drink while pregnant, so it does seem odd that a pub landlord would presume to try and make the 'limit' judgement for the mother.

I do wonder if its because she was drinking pints - would a babycham have been acceptable?

I'm pregnant for third time - first 2 pregnancies drank nothing - this time i've had 2 small glasses of champagne and am now 22 weeks. Will probably have another couple of small drinks before the birth.

However i've had them at home so i know exactly how much/how many units.

I do think its a question of choice - its not like she was downing pints with whisky chasers and popping out for a cigarette.

Where's that bonkers American lady - Leita? She started a thread last year/year before which had hundreds of us up in arms cos she was saying woman shouldn't drink at all in pregnancy and was posting reams of stuff on FAS.

She wouldn't engage at all, just kept saying that we were abusers for doing this and we made her

Laurie - Both men and women commit domestic violence, so to single out men would be incredibly sexist.

So, no, not different strokes.

I don't think it is sex discrimination to suggest pregnant women shouldn't do certain things, if it is purely for the health of the baby.

You're not meant to go horseriding either, would you suggest a stable owner was in the wrong for not allowing a woman to go out on a horse? Or if she were attempting to get on a flight and were refused? Would this also be a 'Classic example of a power-hungry little person dominating their own little empire for the sake of it.'?

Leiti I think!

I'm not singling out men to be sexist - it's an example not a definitive list. To suggest that men and women are treated differently in the criminal justice system is hardly front page news. Nor is it to suggest that men commit more violence when drunk than women do.

I too do not think it is sex discrimination to suggest women don't do certain things - I do think it is a very fine line particularly when we prevent pregnant women doing something.

Would it really be ok to stop pregnant women smoking?

I loathe smoking and I don't think so.

DSM - airlines have guidelines about flying whilst pregnant.

There are no guidelines for serving alcohol to pregnant women.

I still say it was discrimination.

But Vamanos - women who drink in pregnancy mostly do think they are drinking the 'safe' amount. There's no suggestion that this woman though she would harm her baby - but as we can't say the baby won't be harmed then I think it is reasonable for the pub not towant to be complicit in her actions. FWIW I do thinking drinking to excess in pregnancy is tantamount to child abuse.

For the record, DSM, I think you're equally uninformed and presumptuous to refuse to serve pg women, when you are not in full posession of the facts, and just coming up with your own interfering diktats based on very little knowledge and no scientific evidence at all. You are not a doctor, and you don't know what people have been advised personally about this, or what their usual habits are.

If you did that to me, you would find yourself being investigated for sex discrimination, and I would even look into whether such discrimination could consitute a reason for your establishment's licence to be removed. I hope there would be plenty of MNetters standing behind me as well (show of hands, please).