Pregnant Woman Told To Leave Pub

[stinkymonkey]

the nanny state continues

I can understand where the landlord is coming from, though I don't agree with what she did.

How about pregnant woman driving? When they go to get petrol the guy should ask them to show it's a necessary journey or take their car keys away from them. After all she might have an accident.

This isn't about comment this is about preventing a woman from doing something. You might argue that the pub owner can do what she likes in her own place, but wait til you can't buy petrol, food, plane tickets without someone saying "no sorry we don't serve pregnant women"

Emily Pankhurst must be spinning in her grave. All that effort and even women think that women need to be told what to do. You may as well go back to obeying us.

Well, anyone who accepts abortion in principle presumably accepts that women have the absolute right to determine the fate of their fetus and abortion can hardly be said to be healthy for the fetus. Do people think that women who have had abortions should be judged by the general public in public spaces? Perhaps the people who are happy for pregnant women's behaviour to be judged should picket abortion clinics - where damage to 'babies' is a dead cert! I hope people will agree that such a thing would be intolerable for women and unhealthy for maternal self-determination.

Yes, I agree. And if she had an abortion booked for the next day she probably would want to drown her sorrows (not in this situation I know, but...)

you describe a baby like a parasite.well this do whatever you want is is your body is is empty rhetoric.mum and baby are connected by blood barrier and placenta what she ingests potentially affects

no one can compel good health behaviours in anyone else but that isnt an argument to ignore potentiality reckless behaviours as one's rights

abortion is different issue.abortion is determined on need to maintain maternal mental and/or physical health or the health of any other children or the foetus has potential health complications

abortion is determined on a clinical need by 2 doctors.it should rightly be accessible to any womanwho requires it

going belly aching to the media that your "rights" have been impinged because he declined further alcohol.well tough titty that is a bruised ego not human rights

You are right that UK abortion law does not afford full autonomy and self-determination to the woman - and that is a problem in my view.
I don't think invoking 'human rights' is helpful here either. It's not an abstract principle that's important so much as the real necessity for women (and parents) to be able to make their own decisions about what is reasonable parental behaviour without feeling that other people are judging them based on dubious scientific evidence, health policy dictats or the generalised presumption that adults make pretty crap parents unless guided every step of the way by 'experts'.

but abortion is based upon pt (eg woman) need so actually she has full autonomy,and decision making.foetus isn't recognised under human rights legislation.and partner cannot supersede wishes of pg woman.so actually abortion does recognise the woman wishes

SM: the issue is that a foetus is not a person, but that only women are policed as though foetuses are people.

Look, I'm as anti-abortion as it gets, but I'm completely against this kind of nannying of people.

Having said that, a bar does have discretion about who it serves, and I've declined to serve people who were too bloody rude before (because I decided that more alcohol would make them aggressive). You don't have the 'right' to get served.

So I'm uncomfortably perched on the fence - I agree the bar should be able to decline service to people, but I also don't think that just because a woman is pregnant she becomes public property and loses all personal autonomy.

not so.the guidelines are just that discretionary and not enforceable at all.no brie police waiting to pounce out

all this foot stamping about control and wimmins rights and pg is a mere froth - essentially there may be moral over tones but these are not enshrined legally and are not enforced.at all

Jesus wept kate price habitually fell out of cabs drunk pg and queen kerry taking drugs pg.no on nicked them .no police or nanny state intervened.

just a bunch of conspiracy theorists who alarm women with fear they will get carted off for eating soft cheese etc

ScottishMummy: there were calls for both Katona and Price to be arrested and/or have their children taken into care and there are a lot of people who really would like to see women reduced to the status of service appliances and incubators. It is important not to let human rights slide on the grounds of 'well they shouldn't really be doing that anyway'. It;s important to make a noise about this stuff, just like it's important to allow BNP members their human rights to talk and print and publish their crap but to challenge it every time you see it.

cool it with the BOLD i can read and distinguish emphasis.media squawking isnt the same as enforceable legal power

so as gratefully as they behaved,they faced no legal sanctions

so as disgracefully as they behaved,they faced no legal sanctions

and the child Kate price was pg with falling out cabs munted, was harvey who has well documented LD.it is not known if her alcohol contributed to this

Media squawking however is exactly what fuels the moral panic about pregnant women and alcohol (and cheese and salad and peanuts and...) such that the govt (and their agencies) ignore scientific evidence and instead provide guidance based on spurious claims because that is what the squawking will tolerate.

I like bold SM. Because it's the equivalent of stamping my feet and yelling. Which sometimes feels more than necessary.

SM, bollocks. What is a woman being refused service just because she is pregnant if it's not someone else enforcing sanctions?

and do You believe everything the media tell you?or surprise are you going to tell me you are of course able to distinguish ahhh but the lumpen proletariat are so impressionable that they believe everything

sometimes stamp to detract from your whimsy arguements?

I think her arguments are good

My, SM, you're on prime form.

Er, no. I didn't suggest that one has to believe everything the media tells us for a moral panic to emerge. In fact, I'd suggest it isn't the LP at all who believe it but health professionals caught up with bureaucratic targets fearing the litigious LP. And govt officials wanting to catch a soundbite and appeal to the public imagination.

doh!well clearly. i however demur

so if people don't believe media how does moral panic ensue?rabid NHS workers haranguing poor pg women

SM - wrt your comment that some on this thread are
"just a bunch of conspiracy theorists who alarm women with fear they will get carted off for eating soft cheese etc"

can I point you towards this below:

"By StewieGriffinsMom on Tue 31-Mar-09 16:59:27
Most bars in Canada wouldn't serve someone clearly pregnant although it is not illegal to do so."

That 'most bars in Canada' will not serve a pregnant women is a fairly alarming statistic if it is true - as it would mean that it is socially acceptable there to impose strict controls on what pregnant women consume. And this is CANADA, not Afghanistan. Is it really so unreasonable to be wary of similar attitudes prevailing here?

haha given i dont live in canada how the fuck would i know?

Must admit I'm having trouble following your trains of thought, SM. But since the problem is clearly mutual let's give it up, eh?