Pregnant Woman Told To Leave Pub

[stinkymonkey]

the nanny state continues

I can understand where the landlord is coming from, though I don't agree with what she did.

Shesells - she is visibly pregnant! There is a baby potentially at risk here and the staff did what was within their scope to do. They don't know she never normally touches a drop etc etc. She was drinking whilst pregnant - and apparently so keen for more booze that she was caught drinking her friend's drink. Time after time I see posts on mumsnet bemoaning a lack of public involvement in protecting the vulnerable. Yet - when somebody actually does do that, we are supposed to get all her up because it denied her the right to be in the second trimester and drinking to excess?

SGM: that FAS has a genetic component (which I agree with) means that it's wrongly named - it is to do with a woman's genes more than the amount of alcohol she consumes.
I drank a lot when PG and my child does not have any signs of FAS: he is healthy, well-grown and of advanced intelligence.
I think this landlord was a self-righteous twat.

She, and her friends broke the law.

The story says she drank one pint, and her friend then tried to buy her a drink and was refused. She then started to drink from another friends pint.

Which, by the way I think is incredibly cheeky and I too would have asked her to leave after that.

She was told she was being refused service, so proceeded to drink from her friends pint? Yeah, she sounds delightful.

Given that landlords serve alcohol to people who are already drunk and people who regularly drink more than the 'safe' limit, I find it hard to believe any landlord's license would be at risk from serving alcohol to a pregnant woman.

Stewiegriffinsmom - it is not that people don't believe FAS exists. The evidence for a LOT of alcohol in pregnancy potentially causing a LOT of harm is very good. The argumnts are about whether mothers should therefore be prevented from drinking a small amount of alcohol. Three units on one occasion won't give your child FAS.

Perhaps the bar staff should ensure that no one goes over their daily safe levels of drinking?

Oh, that's right they wouldn't actually make a profit.

It is illegal for bar staff to allow any of their customers to get drunk not just pregnant women.

"Imagine if the landlord had continued to serve the pregnant lady, so as not to 'humiliate' her. Imagine she had a few drinks, and something happened to her." Er, lets then apply that to all women. They may be pregnant and not look it? They might have too much to drink and get raped? Let's just keep the pubs for the men folk.

It is literally his business. A publican is fully entitled to refuse to serve someone. He/she is also entitlted to make anyone leave his pub.

The only time that someone running a pub would get into trouble would be if they refused to deserve someone because they were black/ Irish/ disabled. In fact a landlord can get into trouble for deserving someone enough to put their health in danger.

Clearly this woman couldnt care a sh*t about her baby. Why else would she have three units of alcohol in one evening.

I am sure that pub would have been happy to serve her lemonade, orange juice or mineral water. You don't have to drink alcohol to enjoy yourself.

Maybe she's some uber chav that knocks back the White Lightening every night - maybe that's the first alcohol she's had throughout her pregnancy. Who knows?

But as she wasn't underage, drunk or violent or abusive then she shouldn't have been refused service.

If bar staff can just refuse to serve somebody that take a personal dislike to then what's to stop them from refusing to serve black customers? Asian customers? Ugly people?

I think this just another case of some dickhead deciding to exercise what they see as their "right" to control someone else, just because he/she can.

Three units of alcohol at that stage of pregnancy isn't a danger to anyone. I wouldn't have done it, because I found a blanket ban was just easier and I wanted to be absolutely sure I was safe - but refusing to serve this lady was just pathetic. Classic example of a power-hungry little person dominating their own little empire for the sake of it.

Unfortunately Crackfox, people have lost licenses before because of thigns like that happening. People leave a bar, get attacked and the licensee gets prosecuted for allowing them to get so drunk. It is actually quite common.

Bar staff should, and very often do, refuse service to people who are blatantly over the limit. However, as there are no set guidelines about what constitutes over the limit (as it is accepted that it varies from person to person), then this has to be based on personal judgement.

As for your comment:
'Er, lets then apply that to all women. They may be pregnant and not look it? They might have too much to drink and get raped? Let's just keep the pubs for the men folk.'

Since when were it only women that got attacked, raped, beaten?

Plenty of people get barred from pubs. Not necessarily for logical reasons. If there was a pattern of a landlord refusing to serve black people then he would get into trouble. However its fine for a landlord to bar to serve a particular person who happens to black, because the person made a pass at the young bar person, or is repeatly rude.

Greensleeves - 'Classic example of a power-hungry little person dominating their own little empire for the sake of it.'

I respectfully disagree. I have refused service to a pregnant woman before (actually, more than once) and I certainly do not fit into that statement.

Alcohol inhibits peoples judgement, which is one reason why licensees have the right to make certain decisions for people who are intoxicated.

I always find these stories hard to comment on. I haven't drank much since my very early twenties, so not drinking when pregnant wasn't an issue for me. same as not smoking whilst pregnant was not an issue for me because I haven't smoked since early twenties. Both of which leave me with the "well, its only for a few months, whats the issue with not doing it?" point of view.

I appreciate that the guidelines had to change, as it was always a little confusing, the whole "you-can-drink-a-little-but-we-wont-say-what-a-little-is-you-should-be-okay-but-you-might-not" approach. It is better to have a "there is no safe limit" stand which leaves the choice in peoples hands, much like smoking.

I dont think the landlord was right to refuse, but I accept he has that right, much in the same way the woman had a choice to drink.

I do think her friends were idiots though!

Good points Crackfox. I'm sure that landlords serve known alkies all the live long day, knowing it's damaging their health. It would be humiliating to be refused service on the grounds of being pregnant - it isn't illegal to drink while pregnant, so I don't understand why the pub got on it's high horse tbh.

Had I been refused service in a pub when PG I would have gone to the papers too. It is not up to other people, however hysterical, misinformed and silly they are, to police the behaviour of pregnant women.
What risks there are regarding alcohol in pregnancy apply more in very early pregnancy when the woman herself may not know she is pregnant, let alone be visibly so: should landlords be entitled to refuse service to all women of childbearing age on the grounds that they might be pregnant?

The fact that the woman drank a pint and then tried to order a half pint does suggest that she was limiting what she drank.

You do in my view DSM, if you see it as your place to dictate what someone else does with her own body

"The fact that the woman drank a pint and then tried to order a half pint does suggest that she was limiting what she drank. "

If she was limiting what she was drinking she would have stuck to half a pint and had soft drinks. There is no way that a pregnant woman should have three unit of alchol in one evening.

The stupid woman doesn't deserve children.

Well, landlords are entitled to refuse service to anyone they want, so technically, they already are.

A pregnant woman is completely within her rights to go off and have a few drinks. But no pub is legally obliged to serve her. She could just as easily go to a shop and buy as much as she wanted.

BOFB - I am sure some landlords to serve drunk people all day long. Those landlords probably wouldn't have refused service on the grounds of pregnancy though.

SGB - When I refused service to pregnant women, I was neither hysterical, misinformed or silly, thank you.

"The stupid woman doesn't deserve children"

...ha ha - yes, quite right, let's hope social services intervene and place her baby with foster parents!

Greensleeves - I am not dictating what anyone does to their body, but I am choosing not to be a part if it by selling alcohol to a pregnant woman.

If you want to drink when you are pregnant, by all means go ahead, none of my business. But please don't call me a 'power-hungry little person' because I would rather not be the one to provide the alcohol.

Of course the landlord/lady is allowed to refuse service according to their own whims, nobody is disputing that. But it still makes him/her a controlling wanker IMO.

And lol at deciding on the strength of this atricle/thread that someone "doesn't deserve to have children". Do you deserve to have children? Do I? Does Madonna? Perhaps we should have a legal vetting process before anyone is allowed to have a baby

Pregnant women are adults, they're not public property.

I'm talking about the landlady in the article DSM. You identified yourself with my comments, that's of course your prerogative.

Yes they are adults, and not property. However, the alcohol was the property of the landlord. She asked if she could buy it, he said no.

Like I said, do what you like with your body, but don't expect other people to want to be involved.

DSM I would like to know what 'something' you think might have happened to the pregnant woman if she had had a few drinks, that the landlord would have lost his license over. (I am not talking about the sort of thing that might have happened if she had been completely smashed - I mean the sort of thing that is likely to happen after 3-4 units, which is what we are talking about here.)