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Girl, 2, drowned in her buggy after father let go to kiss mistress

557 replies

mrshamiltiongiles · 18/02/2009 22:14

here

what a bastard

OP posts:
UnquietDad · 20/02/2009 23:47

It would have been the same tragedy.

MsHighwater · 20/02/2009 23:56

I think UnquietDad hit the nail on the head. I think that some posters are projecting their own prejudices, perhaps their own experiences, onto a situation about which, frankly we know sod all.

AitchTwoOh · 20/02/2009 23:56

why would it have been the same? a dead child, brutally, is a dead child. that's bereaved parents, grandparents, siblings pretty much every time.

the circumstances are everything, whether the child dies of leukaemia, gets run over, falls over a cliff... the manner of death is a relevant part of the story. as is the reporting of the witnesses saying that the pram rolled while the man was kissing a woman. if the woman was his wife, terrible. if the woman was his mistress and his wife didn't know about it, double terrible for the wife. 'hello mrs lady, please sit down, i'm afraid i have some news etc... tells story... and miss x jumped in...' 'who's miss x?' etc.

if she knew, if they were separated, then he is not a guy who takes his two tiny kids on a date behind mummy's back. that makes him a different kind of man, imo, and i am more inclined to more sympathy.

AitchTwoOh · 21/02/2009 00:01

not me, mrshighwater. you might just as easily say that teh posters who don't think infidelity should be a factor in the story are more likely to have been unfaithful themselves. perhaps that's true, right enough?
i never have been, never will be. it's completely against my personal ethics.

flummery · 21/02/2009 02:44

My husband had an affair with a colleague many years ago. At the time he was so distracted, so unlike his usual self and so less able to focus on our kids that one of my biggest worries during the brief time we were separated was that something would happen to harm the kids while they were out with him and her. He was so caught up in what was happening, it was so romantic to him, that he was more like a lovesick teenager and less like a mature man. He recognises, in retrospect, that the kids were a lesser priority to him during the period of his affair than they ever had been, or have been since.

I think you can be of the opinion that the father's relationship most likely contributed to this happening without that meaning you're a judgemental, man hating, moralistic, prurient harridan. I've witnessed the impact a new romantic relationship can have on a person, and the way that it can compromise their ability to focus their attention on the world outside the relationship bubble.

I feel enormous empathy for this man, his wife, his girlfriend, the children, granparents and everyone touched by the horror of losing Rebecca. I still think that the new relationship is a factor, and would be very surprised if the father didn't feel the same way. It's likely to magnify his guilt and be something he beats himself up over.

mamadiva · 21/02/2009 08:39

Aitch- If someone expressing sadness at a child who has died is classd as 'mawkish' to you then well yes I suppose I am 'mawkish'.

I am not religious and don't like saying Rest In Peace just sounds so final to me and whilst I may sound deluded or whatever you would like to think I am, it's my way of saying RIP and it shall continue to be until I decide otherwise.

At the end of the day as I have said before I am expressing my views and sadness at this horrible, horrible tragedy whist others seem to be dwelling on 'facts' which quite simply at this time are not helping anyone infact 'facts' which are prbably makig things worse for a family who has already sufferred enough IMO.

Kimi · 21/02/2009 09:11

Bet even if he and his wife were seperated HIS mistress is not, so it is a grubby little affair that has ended in tragedy and the death of a child.

staggerlee · 21/02/2009 09:21

I've never been unfaithful either aitch, so what?. Its frankly irrelevent in this case-the guy could have scratched his arse, taken his hands off the pram and the outcome could have been the same.

BananaSkin · 21/02/2009 09:50

I agree AitchTwoOh

expatinscotland · 21/02/2009 09:55

Exactly, flummery. Great post.

I don't think it's entirely irrelevant at all.

helsbels4 · 21/02/2009 10:07

It was reported that the mother hadn't known about the extra relationship and that the mother and father will be staying together for the sake of the other children, so that implies to me that he was having an affair. If that is so, what sort of low-life takes his children out with his mistress and kisses her in front of them? The little girl was almost three for Heaven's sake! My first reaction on reading the article in th OP was that I would physically tear his dick off with my bare hands but I'm guessing that this man will have to live with his actions for the rest of his life. I'm not sure I could live with myself if I had been with a lover behind DH's back and a tragedy such as this happened. Just my personal opinion but I would never, ever be able to forgive the husband

pramspotter · 21/02/2009 10:26

That was an excellent post by Flummery. Everyone scroll down a bit and read it.

UnquietDad · 21/02/2009 10:38

But if it's just the "impact a new romantic relationship can have" impairing his judgement which people are concerned about, then the opprobrium should be equal if he were a single dad starting up a relationship with a new laydee-friend.

And we all know it wouldn't be.

Let's not deny the sub-text.

pramspotter · 21/02/2009 10:44

A single dad starting up a new relationship would not be trying to "hide" in a secluded, dangerous area.

He wouldn't be a very good dad if we was bringing his kids out on dates either. Not at that age, not at the beginning of a new relationship.

If it were the mother out with a boyfriend I would feel the same way and just as strongly.

beanieb · 21/02/2009 10:45

good post flummery....and also I agree with AitchTwoOh when she says "you might just as easily say that the posters who don't think infidelity should be a factor in the story are more likely to have been unfaithful themselves. perhaps that's true, right enough?"

SweetCheeksLovesSweetTalk · 21/02/2009 10:55

Well beanieb I have never been unfaitful in any realtionship and frankly that is a stupid crass comment to make IMO

staggerlee · 21/02/2009 10:56

How do you know he was tryng to 'hide'? You don't, you are making an assumption.

I don't approve of infidelity particularly and don't think I would tolerate it on a personal level. Theres a million reasons why someone may be distracted enough for an accident like this to happen.

Unquietdad is right lets not deny the sub text to this.

SweetCheeksLovesSweetTalk · 21/02/2009 10:57

I agree with Unquietdad as well

flummery · 21/02/2009 11:00

UnquietDad, I remember a case from years ago when two young girls were killed while playing on a railway line. The mother of one of the girls and her new husband had taken her (I think) children and the girls friend on a picnic. A lot of the initial reports focussed on the allegation that they were lying down and kissing when the girls wondered off.

From memory there was as much opprobrium as sympathy directed their way.

The infidelity angle, if it's true, definitely results in more salacious reporting, but it's not the only factor.

FWIW, I think if it had been the case of a single father and new girlfriend, the main change in the reporting would be simply that the headline would read: "girl drowns after father lets go to kiss girlfriend".

violethill · 21/02/2009 11:00

I think UnquietDad makes an important point. In fact, while we're on the subject of 'impaired judgement', isn't the reality that there are literally hundreds of situations that could cause someone to not be absolutely 100%. Many people are losing, or at risk of losing, their jobs at the moment. Does that mean if a father is having work problems, he shouldn't take sole charge of his children because he might not be firing on all cylinders? What about a SAHM who's not very well? Should she try to farm her children out until she'd better because her judgement might be impaired? What about if she's suffering with depression?

I'm very uneasy about the route this leads down. The media jumped on the idea of a 'mistress' because it makes a salacious story, and unfortunately it sells papers because some people have an unhealthy obsession with what the tabloids write.

As far as can be gathered, the man was separated from his wife. He was seeing someone else. That's not against the law. Some people on here have speculated that they were 'hiding away' and that it must have been awful for the children being taken out with the 'other woman'. FGS. We don't know how many times the children may have met the woman before. We don't even know if the wife was seeing anyone else/in another relationship.

The whole thing is a tragic accident. The father didn't set out to wheel his kids' pushchair into the sea (though you would think that from some of the venom on here). An accident.

flummery · 21/02/2009 11:04

Don't get me wrong, I agree that there's definitely an a sub-text added by the alleged infidelity factor.

AitchTwoOh · 21/02/2009 11:33

By SweetCheeksLovesSweetTalk on Sat 21-Feb-09 10:55:40
Well beanieb I have never been unfaitful in any realtionship and frankly that is a stupid crass comment to make IMO

no, you're missing the point. it has been alleged and was then widely agreed with that all the people who were less sympathetic to the dad were working throught their ishoos with men and infidelity.

i was just proposing the (equally unlikely but just as insulting) alternative reading that the people who were feeling sympathetic were working through ishoos with having been unfaithful.

not crass, or stupid, actually.

solidgoldbullet4myvalentine · 21/02/2009 11:42

What this thread mainly demonstrates is that people who are obsessed with enforcing monogamy on other people are disfunctional spiteful morons, on the whole.

beanieb · 21/02/2009 11:43

who's forcing monogomy on anyone?

beanieb · 21/02/2009 11:45

Sweetcheeks you are very much missing the point and need to read the post that Aitch was responding to, to get it I think.