Girl, 2, drowned in her buggy after father let go to kiss mistress

[mrshamiltiongiles]

here

what a bastard

Well I understand, I suppose I am just an old hippypeace loving and hate to see people fighting and getting outraged over something that is not really relevant to their own lives, seems such a waste of time to me.

Anyway I shall butt out

oops i can't type properly either..been up with vomiting DD half the night!

Well, I'm sure you're right Fanjo - but when I read Aitch's post to me my heart rate probably doubled and my face went hot. I was responding to the OP namecalling the poor father - I responded in kind, to make a point - not to lash out thoughtlessly or without due care.

But for the record, that kind of reaction to a post is not something I usually experience whilst pootling around MN....

I'm usually quite a gentle soul.

I would just like to know where any of you who keep saying he did'nt notice until it was too late actually there?

We know what's in the papers not what actually ahppened...

how do we know that he had'nt let go for 2 seconds when it rolled off and he was in persuit of it staraight away?, how do we know he did'nt leave it 2 minutes before jumping in?

Simple fact is we don't know and we probabl never will and I think people need to realise that tis family are grieving, yes even the 'bastard' father who obviously did'nt care that much about his children and was being negligent because he let go for a minute then jumped in and saved his little boy risking his own life whilst deperately screaming for help. Yes that truely is the sign of an uncaring parent

Now if we want to get into that I'm sorry this is going to cause a riot and I'm not in any way comparing these cases as in my eyes they are equally tragic, but A LOT of people were quick to say that the McCanns were not being negligent because many of us had done it yet apparently not as many of you have let go of a pushchair for 2 minutes?! I know which one I've done and I kow wich one I would consider to be negligent.

Mamadiva, that was an excellent post.

Mamadiva - nice to see a voice of reason on here.

mamadiva good post

sycamore, that's quite an over-reaction to a post on a forum. perhaps you should step away from the computer?

people are allowed to express how they feel, including you, but they must then tolerate being taken up on it.

my point was that neither side of this discussion is covering itself in glory if they can't speak like adults and instead just start nasty name calling. the conversation had moved onto a more ruminative stage, and you coming on and calling us (us, rather than the OP, the 'bitches' was plural) only serves to keep the 'debate' at an unproductive level.

Tbh, I wish people would not bring the McCann family into this. They are almost 2 years into their heartbreak, another tragic mistake, and these sorts of threads must just add to the pain.

Big sigh of relief was expecting to get flamed as mentioned the other cae

Just saying my thoughts, this story has really annoyed me I remember reading in the Sun (yes yes I know ) about it in teh day or so after it happened and it was all very sympathetic yet the next day the story that he was with his mistress broke and everyone turned on him?

Is he not allowed to grieve because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time? Does'nt make it any less painful for him because he should'nt have been there, must read the list of places we are not allowed to go with our children actually don't believe I have seen it...

Pristina sorry if I caused any offence I don't mean any harm towards either family I was just making my point and it seemed the only way to do it.

That's all these things are tragic mistakes.

Aitch, I've definitely got no interest in getting into a row, and although I don't agree with you, and have a strong desire to qualify what I have previously posted against your interpretation again, I'm going to draw a line under it and move on. I know you're not someone who would wind me up for the sake of it, so lets move on.

i think the mcanns will forever have to live with being brought up any time an infant tragedy happens. same with denise bulger. i can't really think that their pain could be much worse, tbh, that a thread on a website is going to tip them over.

the reason i don't think they're relevant is that although i personally wouldn't leave my children as unattended as theirs were, they were paying top dollar for a child-friendly sanctuary and had no reason to think that the bogey man would come.

the sea isn't a bogey man, really. i can honestly say i wouldn't leave the brake off my buggy beside the say (my buggy has big wheels and is prone to sailing off, perhaps that's why i can be so unequivocal?). but maybe my husband would, i should ask him?

he should have been more careful, he should have been paying more attention to his kids. from reports, witnesses don't seem to be disputing that his attentions were elsewhere. that is negligent, near the sea.

of course, he'll never forgive himself, the poor man. but if i was his wife, even separated, i'd have to be a bigger person than i think i am to come close to forgiving him for his moment of negligence.

okay-doke, ST.

mamadiva of COURSE it makes it more painful because he shouldn't have been there. just like if you were to just catch a train that had been delayed leaving the station and it crashed. your family would spend an eternity wishing that the train had left on time.

ok, Mamadiva, I wasn't really thinking of you anyway .

No that's what I meant Aitch by saying it does'nt make it any lss painful I did mean to say if anyhing would mak it more painful but did'nt want to come across as oh he must be feeling so much worse than everyone else as I imagine it would tear you up inside regardless of whether you were there or not.

Oh and it's Denise Fergus not Bulger BTW.

I won't get into my feelings on the McCann cas as I don't think there is any need we all have our views and that's it, and at teh end of the day our views don't count for much as none of us actually no what happened my views are based on speculation as is everyone else's who was not actually there when that pram blew away.

"If he hadn't been having an affair than his little girl would not have died that day."
yes but surely that is a purely factual line of causation rather than anything to do with moral/legal/contributory causation.
i mean if a child chokes on a chip you wouldn't say "well if the mother hadn't given him fast food..." or if they had been driving down a motorway,keeping in mind that road traffic accidents are constantly on the rise (well over here anyway), you wouldn't say "well if he hadn't taken him on that dangerous motorway he'd still be alive"

i think the headline is sensationalist and blatantly trying to make the link in the mind of readers "child died because father wanted affair" when in reality the affair had nothing to do with it, he could have just as easily taken his hand off to kiss his wife, tie his shoe lace, cover his mouth for a sneeze,swat at a bee, ad infitum

Shouldn't the blame be laid at the council's door, for the fact that something could so easily fall over the edge of the promenade?

Poor bloke.

The saddest thing for me is that everyone in this family will suffer guilt over something that they did or didn't do. IME it's an inevitable part of the grieving process.

I met a woman at child bereavement counselling who had caused the car accident in which her 10 week old child died. And by "caused" I mean she momentarily lost concentration and clipped the side of another car. Can you imagine how she felt? Do you think there was anything anyone could say to her that she hadn't already asked herself a million times over?

I feel terrible for this family as a whole. Maybe more so for him because he'll have to live with what he did, and that's a very dark place to have to go.

'Shouldn't the blame be laid at the council's door, for the fact that something could so easily fall over the edge of the promenade?'

Erm, no.

Why should the government always take the place of personal responsibility?

There was a dude around here some years back, got drunk and reversed his car off a promenade like that.

Drowned.

'Oh, the council should put up barriers and let's sue them and blah blah blah.'

How about you don't drive around drunk first . . . there's a thought.

definitely agree no blame should be with council.

What I'm saying is it's a freak accident - not his fault directly, if you want to blame someone it's more related to the fact that the pushchair was ABLE to fall over the edge!

"How about you don't drive around drunk first . . . there's a thought." hardly relates to
"How about you don't let go of your pushchair."

ok

am not talking about suing here.....

exact same thing. being around an open body of water carries risks. that's not the council's responsibility.