So will a conference on anti-semitism really make any difference?

[YaddaYaddaYadda]

I know I've posted a few times about anti-semitism (and I'm sure some people think I should give it a rest) but it's something that's really worrying me at the moment. There's a conference - see here starting today to look at developing strategies to combat the rise in anti-semitism but will it really make any difference? The optimist in me hopes so, the cynic in me doubts it...

I don't think I have ever personally seen anti-semitism. Racism against black/asian people yes, but not against jewish people.

I think it's in the mother's milk in this country (I'm not Jewish, btw). I would say more people than not have anti-semitic tendencies. Sadly.

I don't know about a conference. I think there is such a long standing history of anti-semtism in Europe....in the world, actually. And such very deeply ingrained hostility towards Israel.

I am not hopeful .

No, it won't make any difference.

Onagar are you jewish? Because if not then you are unlikely to notice it. It is a very subtle, deeply ingrained and insiduous thing. That is one reason why it is so dangerous.

I guess at least a conference is better than nothing.

I think it depends where you live and who you mix with. I'm jewish and was brought up in a large British city with a vast jewish population. Cue years of anti-semitism throughout my primary school years.....I now live in a smaller UK city with a virtually non-existent Jewish community and I've never encountered anti-semitism here, and nor have my kids. Have come across racism though at a children's event which really sickened me.

My family have experienced alot of racisim and we are white. We live in a area with alot of ethinic minoritys and we have been spat at and someone even drove at my child in its buggy the other week. People who think that white people dont suffer racist attacks are living in cloud cuckoo land. We have been to the police several times but we are always told there is nothing they can do.

It seems there is another conference with a conflicting agenda.

Clerics Urge New Jihad Over Gaza

All I can say is... yikes!

They are united in hatred of Israel and Jews. Ho hum.

I thinkIt's so sad. I'm not Jewish, but I notice ant-semitism. I feel sorry for Jewish people, they just can't win Don't think a conference is going to change ingrained mentalities though.

I think it might raise the awareness of those who would care if they knew more about it.

It won't change anything that 1000s of years hatred haven't changed, no.

That "cleric " nutcase that Livingstone wanted to let in a few years back was on Al Jazeera a week ago. Very frightening stuff - al qawseri I think his name is although spelling is awfuyl.

he said something like

" the jews first punishment was from the Nazis, the second punishment will be at the hands of the believers god willing and i would like to be there to do it".

Not sure who we face the greater threat from tbh but would much rather live in britain than anywhere these types of madmen at the moment!

Onagar are you jewish? Because if not then you are unlikely to notice it. It is a very subtle, deeply ingrained and insiduous thing. That is one reason why it is so dangerous.>>

If it's so subtle that only jewish people can see it then presumably even the people being anti-semitic can't tell either since not being jewish they wouldn't be able to see it.

I'm not black, but I know racism when I see it. Not saying there isn't any anti-semitism at all, but I can't see where the idea that this country is heaving with it came from.

Unless we are talking about 'anti Israeli government policy' there is plenty of that, but I expect at least half of all Israeli citizens disapprove of government policy in some respect.

onager - read the papers - the country is heaving with it as you put it. To the extent that I won't go with my family, who are dressed as easily identifiable religious jews, to central london attractions this half term and our headmistress in assembly urged boys for their own safety to wear caps instead of kippahs ( jewish head coverings). We have also employed not one but 2 extra security guards with links to local police by radio. How many does your school have or need?

i suppose its possible not to see anything if we don't look but if we open our eyes its there. Even at the foreign office.

I think you are either very lucky or blinkered, onager.

I'm not Jewish, but I am regularly stunned by the anti-semitic remarks I hear made in the most disturbingly casual way, by otherwise intelligent people.

You're right - many people don't even realise they are being offensive, it is that deeply ingrained. That doesn't make it any less wrong, though, does it?

I was on the receiving end of some pretty nasty anti-semitism from a pupil once. I'm not Jewish, but he had the idea that I was, and denying it as a means to avoiding the problem seemed wrong somehow.

"presumably even the people being anti-semitic can't tell either since not being jewish they wouldn't be able to see it."

Prejudice in any shape or form can be subtle. Many many people are prejudiced without knowing it. It is the small seeds of doubt in people's minds and the slightly skewed perceptions they have of a particular group that allows the more virulent prejudice to take root and grow.

Having said that the increased ransackings of Jewish cemetries and daubings on Jewish properties is not subtle and a marker of how anti-Semitic incidents are increasing.

When I said if you are not Jewish you may not notice it that is because these attacks are not reported as frequently on national papers as they are in the Jewish Press so you will be less aware of them. That is not a criticism of you, it is just the way it is.

There was a case reported recently in my local paper of kids at a Jewish school having to have security to escort them home on a special bus because kids from a local non-denominational school were physically attacking them, throwing stones and bottles at them and shouting anti-semitic abuse on a regular basis. This is in a very cosmopolitan area of London. A local cafe owner told me he had witnessed the abuse one afternoon and it was absolutely horrendous and not at all subtle - one girl of about 12 was spat at (in her face) and called a Zionist pig.

I found that terribly upsetting

Yes MrsMattie - I know the school well. You must live near to me if it was in your local paper too.

I do think it is fair to say that non-jewish people won't see it because of course it won't be directed at them. So they may simply not have the same experience a jewish person would have.

I could sit next to anti-semtic pig on the bus and I wouldn't know it because he wouldn't say to me what he might say if I appeared to be jewish. (although I'm not sure he would know what my religeon is by looking at me)

I am not Jewish but I definitely see a rise in antisemitism. I'm shocked by how many people in my left wing, multi culti, liberal pinko circle frequently make antisemitic remarks and don't even realise what they've said.

Onager, you said "Unless we are talking about 'anti Israeli government policy' there is plenty of that, but I expect at least half of all Israeli citizens disapprove of government policy in some respect."

I think a lot of people are kind of blinded by the feeling that they are justified in criticizing Israeli gvt policy, they don't notice the whole load of other totally outrageous assumptions that piggyback along with their righteous indignation.

Anti semitism can be very subtle. People I know that consider themselves very liberal and anti racist, can show themselves to be anti semitic without even realising it. I'm not Jewish but have experienced anti semitism in an indirect way, and it's pretty undermining and threatening.
I remember reading a case a year or two back, where two girls aged about 13 were sitting on a bus in North London when a group of lads started harrassing them because they looked Jewish. One girl was let off because she was wearing a Crucifix, but the other was badly beaten up despite saying that she wasn't Jewish (the photos were horrible).
I don't know whether a conference will change such ingrained prejudices. I think you either have to experience anti semitism or be unusually empathetic to really understand it.

Yes, casual comments do sneak in alongside all sorts of fair critique. Like comments about wanting the BBC to show the Gaza appeal (fine) that end with some comment about the Jews being their paymasters or some such nonsense.(Not fine at all)

Lisalisa, I saw a similar thing the other week. It was utterly shocking - worst thing I think I've ever seen. Basically said the holocaust happened because of all the wicked things the Jews did, like controlling the banks, etc.

I mean, holocaust denial is one level of idiocy, but this guy was cheerfully lying and saying the holocaust certainly did happen, and it was a jolly good thing, too.

Lisalisa - I've just read your post and feel very sad that you do not feel you can take your children into central London this half term and that their school has had to hire extra security guards. It's so wrong that the attitudes and behaviours of ignorant people are affecting your children's childhoods in this way.

yes yaddayaddayadda but - and here is the but - we have friends who always keep a £1,000 in credit in their bank for easy withdrawal . When we asked why they straightfacedly said " In case we have to leave in a hurry". If you have ever seen Fiddler on the roof it's that type of mentality - always expecting to go and half being packed. That is us Jews i'm afraid. I am under no illusions that this is my permenant home. How could it be ? As much as I love England , and i truly really do and appreciate all it has done for me, I am all too aware that I am a guest here adn that centuries before and every few centuries in fact we have been kicked out of here and other nations across Europe and that this could happen at really any time ( by this I mean in any given generation rather than in next 5 mins of course).

And tehrefore I am not surprised by any of this - just keeping a close eye. I must admit though that the rise of islamic fundamentalism here in the Uk is a concern.

My mum always tells me hide my jewellery (what jewellery?!?) in the curtain hems just in case we ever need to cut and run!