So will a conference on anti-semitism really make any difference?

[YaddaYaddaYadda]

I know I've posted a few times about anti-semitism (and I'm sure some people think I should give it a rest) but it's something that's really worrying me at the moment. There's a conference - see here starting today to look at developing strategies to combat the rise in anti-semitism but will it really make any difference? The optimist in me hopes so, the cynic in me doubts it...

maybe 'progress' is the wrong word. Maybe just still part of the enlightenment 'process'

In my nearest large town there is terrible anti semetism. Muslim book shops openly display posters with an anti jewish sentiment. Hezbollah pamphlets calling the jews 'a cancer' are on the counter.
The synagogue had to close due to constant grafitti and attacks. In the end the jewish community have had to move out.
I am not jewish but am appalled by what I see.

Kate I am sorry but you seemed to me to hijack the thread to express your own personal distatse for Israel, which is for once not the subject. Diaspora anti-Semitism is the subject. What is your point in comparing British jewry to the Palestinians except to belittle what is going on here. Obviously it is far more shit to be in Gaza right now but that is irellevant to this thread and actually quite inflammatory.

And when people talk of fleeing they refer to the thousands of years of expulsion that Jews have faced. Where do you think the Jewish population in this country come from, escaping the pogroms in Eastern Europe. Fleeing persecution is probably ingrained in our historical psyche for good reason but it does not necessarily equate to Zionism. And I suspect you would find most European Jews would run to the USA not Israel.

BonsoirAnna, I think the French have a cultural history of not encouraging religious dress, eg Muslim girls are not allowed to wear headscarves to school. I think it's quite a good thing, as outward signs of religion do tend to divide and segregate. Btw, why don't you mention your dd- she is half Jewish,no?

That is true, thoug they are rethinking that now as, I think, it was hoped Islam would mellow as it was embraced/embrtaced within multiculturtalism - it was the liberal multicultural dream maybe. The reality is that the oppostite is happening. Sadly. Really sadly. It has many liberals in a mess, drowning in their own good intentions, not realising the path is still to hell.

which 'path to hell' would that be then MTE? you are being obtuse. A little clarity will help.

Pristina LOL no my DD isn't Jewish, they won't have her...

'Path to hell paved with good intentions' or 'road' to some

I'm not being obtuse at all. If you want further clarification, just ask. No need to be rude

(My friends call me MT )

I AM asking. What is this road to hell? what exactly are you saying?

BA, I'm confused. I know Jewishness is officially passed down through the maternal line but there must be many people with Jewish father, non Jewish mother who still consider themselves to be half Jewish?

Pristina - my DD is too young to consider herself any thing religion-wise but it would be rather wrong for me to say she is Jewish given that no Rabbi in France would ever consider her Jewish. Even her stepbrothers, whose mother converted to Judaism before marriage and whose own father was Jewish, could only do their Bar Mitzvah in the most liberal synagogue in France... they just aren't Jewish for mainstream Judaism.

My DD, born of an Anglican mother not married to her Jewish father, hasn't got a hope in hell of being considered Jewish unless she converts to Judaism as an adult.

Her father is Jewish; that doesn't make her Jewish. She may be "half-Jewish" from some perspectives, but not from a Jewish one.

That's really interesting, I'm not an expert on the religion so good to learn something new about it.

The self flagelation - an indulgence in itself - of western liberals. Of thinking the 'other' (again, their desegnation) better than themelves. Of commiting the (racist) fallacy of the 'noble savage' with Muslims. Projecting their own pacifistic ideas onto a culture they barely undestood. In doing the 'christian' thing and turning the other cheek to distastefuyl things in human nature. The list is endless, but the main one is self hatred and misguided benvolence. Humans are as warlike as they are altruristic - and it all depends on kin. That isn';t the way I would wish it, but I think our culture has tested the benevolence to its limits.

I meant to come back to this thread before. There are some interesting points.

MiTochondrialEve says "There has been a massive rise in anti-semitism on the continent Onagar, and sadly it does corrolate with a rise in muslim immigration"

Litchick says "In my nearest large town there is terrible anti semetism. Muslim book shops openly display posters with an anti jewish sentiment. Hezbollah pamphlets calling the jews 'a cancer' are on the counter"

Sounds like it's not really the original British population (for want of a better term) that you are having a problem with then.

they are talking about muslims of course.

no need to beat around the bush.

As for the muslim bookshops, i strongly suspect that the so called ''anti semitic'' posters, were about ending the illegal Israeli occupation, not targeting Jews. If they were really inciting racial hatred, that is illegal and the bookshop owners would be in serious trouble, legally speaking. Pray tell, what did those ''anti semtitic'' posters really say?

On the other hand, I will not deny that anti semitism AMONGST NON MUSLIMS is on the rise. I am a Muslim and mix with muslims in all walks of life. My father is a muslim bookshop owner (mind you, no posters on his shop window). We were raised learning that the Jews are our brethren and that we come from the same father. We were taught, in mosques, that the Jews are closest to us theologically. Whenever we discuss Israel and Gaza, in muslim groups, every one of us will agree that there are many like minded Jewish people for whom we have massive respect that condemn events in gaza, and we sympathise with the targeting of Jews in this country and worldwide as a result of what the israleis did in Gaza. Having said this, even those WHO DONT condemn events in gaza, we believe, are worthy of sympathy for beign targets of racism. I grew up reading Ann Frank, immersing myself in world war II literature and watching films like Fiddler on the roof on a sunday afternoon with my mum.

Here is a Palestinian, staunch supporter of Palestine, born to arab parents, fiercly loving my religion and identity, and I can put my hand on my heart and say that not only are we not anti semitic but we were raised as part of our community to view Jews and non jews as equals and friends. Sadly, this is not reiterated all the time( I remember going to visit a jewish school when i was about 10 for a chess competition and hearing words like 'stinky pakis' and 'dirty arabs' being thrown at us. I do not remember a single 'paki' child reply. it was my first time being amongst jewish children my age and i do remember feeling slightly dissapointed, but got over it).

On the other hand, i am against zionsim and don't believe for a minute that it is about 'security'. Israel is a terror state founded on the principles of terrorism and its leaders and founders are self confessed terrorists. nothing is more anti semitic than zionism.

what really hurts is that muslims are being accused of anti semitism all the time, just another reason to hate muslims i suppose. There are plenty of angst filled muslim youths who may spout anti jewish sentiment but they are largely seen as pests in need of education and discipline by the muslim community, and we shun them sincerely . but non of this will stop. i have been called anti semitic on this forum on several occasions and now i lose hope.

very interesting post sherazade. as someone who went to a jewish junior school, I honestly don't remember ever hearing racist language at school, sounds like the typical lame excuse, but I really don't think it would have been tolerated (was at school in mid to late 80s)- but I do apologise for the shameful behaviour of my co-religionists.

In terms of the bookshop posters - that wouldn't particularly bother me - within the law people have a right to their opinions. I was far more shocked by Litchick's saying that the synagogue had been forced to close due to attacks.

In general - I've always felt there could be a lot of common ground between the religions and their beliefs, and it's a shame that due to the history/Israel that things can become so polarised. I don't agree with your views on Zionism, but I don't wish to debate the point further as it's a huge huge topic of it's own.

I also want to add that I have been the victim of racial hatred for a long time. interestingly, i went to to a primary school where i was one of the only non pakistani/indian child and many children mistook me for being jewish, my real name is a bit vague and it is hard to discern my identity for others. Maybe my 'eastern european' looks account for this. not once did any child express any racism towards me but some children curiously asked me if i was jewish. when i started wearing the hijab in secondary school, because of my very fair skin the other children (this was in a grammar school, no muslims in it but myself), used to nickname me 'the nun' and made my secondary school life a complete misery. I remember being pinned down and having cigarettes shoved in my mouth, having my lunch thrown on the floor on a daily basis, my scarf ripped off my head , coming home one day with my clothes soaked in saliva because two pupils at my school had spent an hour spitting on me on the tram (noone cared) and calling me a paki bitch, being held down and half buried in snow in the playground by two huge year 11 boys (i'm a tiny ,tiny scrap of a girl and was tinier then at 4ft11), hurtful notes going round in class about the paki bitch, could go on forever really. So all of this actually makes me all the more sympathetic towards jews and non jews experiencing racism and not for a split second do i ever thinnk the jews are deserving of their treatment because of gaza.

also to add, because i do not believe that the vast and overwhelming majority of muslims are NOT anti semitic, i dont think a conference will help. I can only speak for the muslims. tonight i am attending a debate between a sheikh, a priest and a rabbi. this will certainly strenghthen bridges between the faith communities, more productive perhaps than a conference on anti semitism?

no need to apologise, total chaos. At university i was part of an arab jewish dialogue group where i made lots of lovely jewish friends and that restored my confidence

post 9;07 i meant to say i DO believe the vast majority of muslims are NOT anti semtitic, not the othe way round.

OMG when I think what Jewish mothers have been through for the past 2000 years

That children are being beaten up and attacked with bottles and need security guards at school is horrific

I hadn't read your post when I posted Justabout so I wasn't querying it in any way.