Demonstration against Israeli bombing of Gaza in London on Saturday.

[SmilleysPeople]

If anyone is intersted.

It's at 12.30pm along Embankment, nearest tubes Embankment and Charing Cross.

It's being organised by Palestinian Solidarity Campaign, Stop the War Coaltion and numerous other groups.

I will bump this sporadically, but if anyone else would like to help promote this, plaese bump too.

I will be there.

We can watch it happen, as we have so many times in the past, because Israel has US backing, and the US is the most powerful country in the world.

saadia. I agree. But the US is 'out' about it's backing. Who is Hamas getting it's backing from?

ok, ok bubble - I think I get it! much needed indeed.

Anyway no more from me tonight although it's hard to tear oneself away.

Perhaps someone can explain to me, if the Gaza strip is sealed off and Israel controls the borders, both land and sea and the air, - how do Hamas get their weapons in ??

Sorry to appear dim, this is a genuine question

Perhaps someone can explain to me, if the Gaza strip is sealed off and Israel controls the borders, both land and sea and the air, - how do Hamas get their weapons in ??

Sorry to appear dim, this is a genuine question

oops

"Someone else even said that Bianca Jagger and Annie Lennox were deliberately stirring anti semitism by going on the marches."

Aaaaaargh. Aaaaaargh. Aaaaaargh. Donnie, are you really thick? Nobody said that at all. I mentioned these celebrities as possibly being used as a justification for anti semitism.

You are naive if you think there are no anti semites on these marches.

Please, I cannot consider your contribution to this thread as at all valid. You twist and subvert what people write. You contribute nothing positive to the debate. Go away.

mumtocharlieandlola, I've just been reading the Evening Standard which noted that the border with Egypt may be a "conduit for weapons".

MumtoCharlieandLola.

Hamas are apparently bringing in weapons and fighters through tunnels under the Egyptian border with Gaza.

The Israelis bombed there to destroy the tunnels and stop arms and men coming in.

Thank you Saadia/Bubble, I thought that might be the case.

Why aren't they bringing in food and medical supplies to their people through these tunnels instead of bombs and weapons? Because they don't care about their people.

Hmm, how to start negotiating with such folk?

Are you worried about Palestinian children going hungry WinkyWola?

odd question saadia

I'm just wondering why someone who in essence thinks that Israel is doing no wrong would be suggesting ways of bringing food into Gaza when hunger is probably the least of the worries of the Palestinians at the moment.

I think hunger is one of the main concerns at the moment.

FWIW. I'm sure Hamas has the same hold over Palestinians as Mugabe's Zanu PF does. Make the right noises, give us your children as 'martyrs' and we'll look after you.

I am sure that the people forced to share their homes and schools with Hamas fighters aren't doing so willingly. But if they speak out, they will be murdered as Israeli collaborators, so they will be killed just the same.

Rev - i said I have been in Israel when bombs have been discovered. Actually I have also been in Ariel, Ofra and Hevron when bombs have been discovered too. I think you would count these as settlements . Certainly no palestinian kids were ever used as booby traps. The israelis are not monsters you know and my dh's family ( all in Israel ) have been shocked and saddened by the film coming out of Gaza too. Israeli TV reports it much the same as the West too - they just don't spare the blood and violence. They also have the different perspective on it that they are fighting the same enemy ( Hamas) just with a different name and different mask on this time ( previously it was the PLO, PLF, FATAH , Hezbollah ( in the north))and the necessity for the ocnflict is viewed differently.

I am intersted to read the Breaking Silence stuff and will do so when i get the chance to investigate. However, I would not necessarily take as truth everything I read and would need to look at who the contributors are and their motives for posting what they have as part of the mix. Just becuase somehting claims to be an expose on a secret operation/procedure/group does not of right make it true.

rev - I think Saadia echoed your post where you said you thought this may be happening and she said she may have recalled somehting from the BBC at some point - she coudn't remember what or when. This doesn't really qualify what she says I don't think to to be used as evidence. Also one eyewitness account also doesn't in my mind eihter. How do you know that person is telling the truth. That just leaves the Breaking Silence website which I commented on earlier.

I think it is quite easy for both sides to approach and gather evidence based on what they feel and want to be the truth and to disregard evidence to the contrary or the integrity of the source of evidence.

Reading between the lines in your post, your essence seems to be that you feel the israeli army is in an inhumane force - you commented that you do not feel these are one offs " by an otherwise humane force". If that is how yo ufeel I have to take issue with you there. They are not an inhumane force but are made up of ordinairy everyday people on the street - the army is largely served by reserves who have left their jobs and families to fight for the safety and security of the state of israael. To say they are in humane means that they are incapable of feeling human emotion or of sadness, pleasure and right and wrong. Nothing is fruther from the truth. In fact some of dh's relatives were last night on the phone grumbling that the army directicves on safeguarding palestinian women's and children's lives whilst carrying out the operatoins were putting soldiers at risk. ( They have to give megaphone and text alerts and wait for a set time before bombing to ensure evacuation - this usually ensures that the terrorist leaders sought after have a chance to escape too).

Btw - the unofficial word from israel is that ther Hamas officials wanted by Israel were in that school and that the UN asked them to leave but they wouldn't. They hid in classrooms and in the common areas and refused to respond to israel's insistence that they come out and fight. When Israel came under fire frm the school they issued usual warnings to evacuate etc and hamas prevented them from leaving . Israel then bombed. I'm not saying this was right or perfect _ I feel great personal sadness at the deaths of children - it is appalling and tragic - of that ther is no mistake. But I know where I lay the blame. And that is not with the "inhumane" force that you lay the blame with . The blame is squarely with the other truly inhumane force, Hamas.

rev - just a quick word on the injuries you saw - only a doctor can comment on how the injuries were caused and the manner in which they seem to have been sustained as this is a highly technical and complex area hence expert witnesses to this subject ni a court of law. I am sorry to say that , appearing as a sympathetic and friendly reporter in a palestinian hospital , of course you are going to be told that the Israelis did this and to an unarmed unprovoked civilian. They are hardly going to tell you anyhting different are they?

I think if you , in turn, are truly interested in hearing both sides , rather than the side you feel to be right, you should also take your interviewing skills inside israel - not to your family or friends- but to Israeli hosptials and to therapy centres where you will meet the victims of palestinian brutality too. Where you will meet the mohter of the family who's house was broken into by a palestinian and who'#s 5 year old son was shot in cold blood in the kitchen by the terrorist and whose husband was then murdered as he prayed in an adjacnet room. You would hear how the mother, so terrified as she crouched upstairs, accidentally suffocated her 2 year old as she lay with her under a bed desparately trying to keep her quiet. You would hear her story of how many times she has tried to kill herself since, blaming herself for he rduaghter's death and picturing herself screaming in her kitchen with her son's dead body in her arms.

You see rev, there are stories and horror both sides. The funddamental difference reamins that Israelis and the army do not randomly pick a house , enter and murder occupants in cold blood because they are muslim.

rev - Saadia said she thought she'd heard - that's very different to being able to quote a source and incident. that amounts to pure heresay and carries no weight.

I do agree with you that individuals can do inhumane things of course. On both sides. People are people. From your previous post you seemed to be saying that you considered the IDF to be an "inhumane force". it is that I took issue with .

The UN representative for the school "accident" just issued a statement saying they are 99.99% positive there were no militants inside.

Of course, they must be lying just to vilify IDF.

And also Shimon Perez on CNN 15 mn ago: he flatly stated that before they strike they actually call all the houses in the area to warn them.
Did not know if I should laugh or cry