Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Baby P

821 replies

GeraldineMumsnet · 17/11/2008 12:38

Hi, to make it easier for people who are finding this subject very distressing, we're going to keep all Baby P posts in one thread. If you'd like to discuss this subject, then here is the thread to do so. We'll go on the other threads and link to this one. Thanks very much.

OP posts:
blueshoes · 18/11/2008 11:38

Thanks ladyworsley. I will be emailing Haringey at [email protected]

mamadiva · 18/11/2008 11:41

Mabanana seriously I know you are very interested in myself and my father but drop it will you. This is not the time or the place to be discussing it, please move on and get a life if it bothers you so much go and campaign outside the houses of parliment or summit will you.

We are trying to do something constructive here and I dont think childish insults (I think that's what they are supposed t be anyway) is going to get us anywhere is it?

So anyway back to something that actually matters, have had 4 emails from friends who have signed and passed on petition so yeay every little helps and all that!

mamadiva · 18/11/2008 11:41

Ooh will email them too thanks for that email address.

BabyBaby123 · 18/11/2008 11:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ladyworsley · 18/11/2008 11:50

According to the BBC website, only 20 MPs have signed the EDM calling for a public enquiry. I can hardly believe that's true given that there are over 650 MPs.
From what I've read in the Times today, it seems that the police did their best for this little boy, whereas the social workers were too focused on the mother. They knew that her older girl had been abused and were worried enough to provide a free childminder for 4 days a week, so why on earth didn't he just go into emergency foster care? Budgets, I suspect.

Also, I am sick to death of reading about children that have died only for things like broken ribs, suffered months before the death, to be revealed afterwards. Surely if there are signs of abuse, children should have x-rays? It's one of the few firm things to go on, as soft tissue injuries heal or can be disguised.

Kathyis6incheshigh · 18/11/2008 11:53

"Give it a break mabana, the majority of gentle everyday folk like the most of people on Mumsnet would not care less if a Prison Officer turned his back on a sadistic child abuser being given a beating."

Evidence for that? It's not true of the people I know, thank goodness. You don't have to sympathise with paedophiles to think a prison system which allows violence against prisoners by prisoners and staff is utterly wrong and should not be allowed in a civilised society.

angelinapumpkin · 18/11/2008 11:57

Do you know what baffles me? If baby P's mother allowed that poor angel to suffer as he did she obviously didn't care about him at all. Then who took him to hospital? I can't understand that monster witnessing that abuse then taking him to hospital for his injuries. What was she doing? What did she plan to do fix him up so he could endure more?

I feel sick just thinking about it and I'm sorry I'm glad they are no longer anonomous. I'm a firm believer in karma.

daisydora · 18/11/2008 11:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

mamadiva · 18/11/2008 12:03

Have sent a rather long email to haringey

Hopefully wont just get deleted but have done so anyway.

Totally agree with Dora! A few nights off wing will help them.

mamadiva · 18/11/2008 12:05

angelina I agree it is quite sick to think that may have been her motive but as I have said before I think she took him so she could explain away his ijuries as surely no one who took their child voluntarily to hospital with those injuries would never have abused him? Well I imagine that'd be the logic that is if any were used in this case

ladyworsley · 18/11/2008 12:13

concurrency. Sorry if this link didn't work, but concurrency is a type of mixed fostering/adoption arrangement operating in about 5 areas of the UK.
It's a "win-win" scheme from the child's point of view because they are temporarily fostered and either go on to be adopted by their foster carers or are allowed back to their birth parents after a period of careful monitoring and improvements.
It's meant to be for very serious cases, and means that the child doesn't have constant changes of carer in the crucial early years.

tiredemma · 18/11/2008 12:14

I too think it was so she could explain away his injuries- hence also why she attended three differing hospitals. She knew that SS could make unannouced visits so would have to appear to be 'co-operative' and caring I suppose. This makes her appear all the more conniving and far from stupid.

utter bitch. and I see on the sky website, another little child bullied and tortured to death in her own home by a 'step-father' and his brother. In New Zealand however.
really, how can women sit by and allow this to happen to their children?

blueshoes · 18/11/2008 12:17

Ladyworsley: 'According to the BBC website, only 20 MPs have signed the EDM calling for a public enquiry. I can hardly believe that's true given that there are over 650 MPs.'

Do you know which party those 20 MPs were in? I wonder how many of them are Labour? John Hemming, who initiated the EDM, was LibDem, I think.

I wish that MPs would drop their partisan position to support this EDM - but don't hold up much hope. I have nonetheless lobbied by Labour MP, who I understand is rather senior in the party.

missyhissey · 18/11/2008 12:37

Well done mamadiva for all the effort you're making. I for one am glad that there are people like you around who care enough to try and make a difference. Respect to you.

mygreatauntgriselda · 18/11/2008 12:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

mamadiva · 18/11/2008 12:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

SH27 · 18/11/2008 13:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

fifitot · 18/11/2008 13:11

Mygreataunt - I really feel you have made a good point. In our society there are pockets of people living in a way that is not consistent with decent values. The causes for this are many and maybe not the place to debate on here but I mean they live on sink estates, the kids don't go to school, there are filthy houses, domestic violence, substance and alcohol abuse, they are 2nd or 3rd generation unemployed, have no social skills, they have no structure to their lives, they stay up all night watching porn or playing computer games etc etc. It is within these settings that a 'normal' way of life breaks down and it is here that violence of whatever kind flourishes. Now before anyone criticises me - I don't mean everyone in poverty but we all know the kind of people we mean. Authority is not to be trusted and if you cooperate with the police you are seen as a 'grass' and are under a threat of violence.

I am generally a liberal person but have come to accept that social exclusion or whatever you want to call it contributes to the high levels of child abuse and domestic violence. All ordinary life is lost and this may only mean the kids fail at school or are a bit scruffy or it may be worse.

I trained as a social worker in the early 90s and then worked for the probation service after that. A very typical social work ethos pervades social services, one borne from the 1970s when social inequality was top of the agenda as a cause for all societal ills. A year or so ago a probation officer colleague contacted social services about the children of a case she was working with. She had found a filthy house, where the number of people living there was more than the number of beds, there was extensive drug use and the kids weren't going to school. The youngest child slept on a mattress on the floor. The social worker visited and said the standards were acceptable and 'not to judge by your own standards (my friends'. Well my view is - why the hell not judge by someones standards???? That is precisely the problem!

We should have an understanding of what the basic standards of childcare should be, of how a house should be clean and maintained. Why is it acceptable that some kids are 'just scruffy' etc? It's like that 'broken window's theory......the idea being that if you have an empty house and a window gets broke, well it's not a big deal so nothing is done about it. However if you tolerate that, before you know the doors are off and eventually the house is a ruin.

Start small, start tackling the fact that people live in filth, send round housing inspectors regularly etc. On childcare - between 0-5 when a child goes to school, there is noone to look out for them. HVs make an occasional visit if you are lucky. Well lets introduce mandatory child assessments visits which are legally binding etc.

Can we not just raise standards and expectations to ensure the situations that allow the tragedy of this baby do not flourish. yes of course some will slip through the net but something has to happen.

We all laugh at Shameless (well actually I don't) but that is what some people's lives are but unfortunately you can factor in a large dose of violence or neglect to make it more real.

mamadiva · 18/11/2008 13:11

SH the place where his ashes were scatterred was on Panorama last night. Found it a bit unneccassary.

His Gran had apparently tried to contact SS several times but they wouldnt listen to her although I cant understand why she didnt just take him away as surely the daughter wouldnt have bothered after a wile.

I dont understand about the grave that is soo sad no one should have that, seems so impersonal and undignified after what he went through in ife he shuld have a bloody great memorial thingy.

tiredemma · 18/11/2008 13:12

It would be interesting to know what 'mental health issues' this beast was 'struggling' with.

mygreatauntgriselda · 18/11/2008 13:13

IKWYM Mamdiva - mummy hormones kick in when you are pregnant don't they. I was wondering that myself. Being PG always makes me more protective towards my existing DCs.

There are so many questions which will never be answered as it is so beyond the comprehension of nortmal people how anyone can act like this

Those two men must have been so brutalised by their own upbringing that they sadistically tortured a baby, their own grandmother (Jason did) and animals - is it a power trip or what? Is that what their Dad did to them, to "toughen them up"??

The monster who gave birth to Peter seems to have has friends too - people were taken in by her. People sent their kids to her house to play.

tiredemma · 18/11/2008 13:17

I think I have read it somewhere, were the two men brothers??

mygreatauntgriselda · 18/11/2008 13:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

mygreatauntgriselda · 18/11/2008 13:20

Tired - yes they are

ahfeckit · 18/11/2008 13:20

the thing i dont' like it how this traumatic story has been sensationalised as others have put it.
has anyone else seen every hour on the clock the past week since the story broke?i'm honestly struggling to go to sleep, keep thinking how on earth anyone could attack such an innocent child??
agree mamadiva, about the ashes, that wasn't really necessary for that to be mentioned on Panorama last night.

I think in regards to the boyfriend of the 'mother' - it's the old debate - mad or bad.
personally there's nothing mad about him. he's as bad as one could get.