The poor 17 month old -died of broken back

[skydancer1]

I just find these kind of stories of extreme abuse so very upsetting and wish we had better safeguards in place to stop such hideous harm happening or at least continuing (when it's pretty obvious!) to helpless children. Why on earth did the doctor not examine a child because he was already on an at risk register and was 'cranky and miserable' at an appointment and hence he/she failed to notice broken back and ribs? It beggars belief. I'm not a punitive 'hang them flog them' type (in fact I'm strongly against corporal punishment) but in this instance I think the mother should be forcibly sterilised to prevent her ever hurting or 'allowing' such hurt to any other child.

A very shocking and upsetting case.

I don't see how forcibly sterilising someone would guarantee to stop them hurting any another child though.

What if they started a relationship with someone who already had children?

Who would carry out the sterilisation procedure?
Would you be involved in it?

I wouldn't.

Oh god. I'm crying now as I read about this poor little child.

The level of abuse this child suffered is completely unreal. I can't believe the paediatrician who saw him didn't spot some of it. If you read the BBC news website, it lists the various wounds with which the child was afflicted. It truly beggars belief that someone would do this to a child.

God. I'm really sobbing thinking about how much this baby boy suffered. I truly hope he's at peace now.

I too thought I was against corporal punishment. However - follow my reasoning now: we put down dangerous dogs, right? Well, the 'people' who did this to this child forfeited their humanity. They are no better (nay worse) than animals. Unjust that they can't be treated as such.

Rest in peace, baby P.

bastards,bastards,bastards, this is why we should bring back hanging:

I have been following this story in my local paper. A very shocking case.

(btw, I think you may mean capital punishment rather than corporal)

Yes, Mercy, you're right. . Was tearful when I typed (still am - this is going to haunt me for ages), so wasn't thinking straight.

I wrote corporal first but you are right Mercy - I meant capital!

Humphrey - thinking about it yes I would happily be part of a decision to sterilise any of the adults involved in the murder of this child. I think they have certainly proved that they are incapable of caring for any child, utterly untrustworthy with any child and mad/bad enough to be likely to harm again. Yes you're right, they could get involved with someone in the future who already has children. So I would hope they have long sentences in prison and lots of counselling (they must be mentally sick to do this kind of thing or allow it to be done to their child) to help them gain some insight. I would also keep them under supervision if they ever get out of prison.

My point is that making the decision that someone should be forcibly sterilised is very different to actually performing the procedure though.

Who are the people that have to do that?

If you go down that road, why stop at sterilising the mother - what about the perpetrators, or those in their family or circle of friends that may have suspected the abuse, but did nothing about it?

I think the theory and the reality are two very different things.

What happens if someone is wrongly convicted?

I absolutely agree that this was a despicable crime, but I think as a society we should be looking at preventative measures rather than aggressive punitive ones.

The real issue here is that the social services team involved seem to have learned nothing from the Victoria Climbie case. They made an overloaded junior social worker the scapegoat then and promoted the individuals responsible. Now another tragedy that should have been even more easily prevented. The system seems rotten.

I wish I didn't feel compelled to read these things. It just makes me feel angry and powerless and sad . Poor poor little one

Hi HC- well no I would not be performing any surgical procedure as I'm not a surgeon. Yes I'm all for preventative measures rather than punitive and that's why in this case I would advocate preventing people who are despicably abusive of children in their care ever having children in their care again. I'm mainly just shocked, saddened and angered by this little boy's life and death (I realise it is an unusual and extreme case - thankfully). As Upwind implies it's as if the Victoria Climie case never happened.

Had safeguarding training today and last week, which started off by explaining some of the failings of the services in the Victoria Climbie case. I was saddened and sickened to hear of the failings, and even more saddened to hear of the outcome of this case today.

"
The north London toddler was on a child protection register in Haringey
No-one has been found guilty of the murder of 17-month-old Baby P - although two men have been convicted of "causing or allowing" his death."

They fucking murdered him!

Sorry , its upset me a lot as you can probably tell.

I've just read this story and it makes me feel physcially sick. Poor poor little soul.

Skydancer - It is not a pc view but I agree with you on the compulsory sterilising of certain parents. It was my experience of working on child protection cases during my training that helped me form this view.

Really scary that this happened in Haringey, of all benighted places. So much for all the promises after poor little Victoria Climbie was murdered.

The then head of SS in the borough was promoted not long after the case - IIRC went off to be head honcho at the body responsible for regulating SWs. I despair sometimes, I really do.

not sure i would agree with forceable sertilisation, smacks too much of nazism for me - i would like these people to spend the rest of lives in prison though, i don't think you can rehabilate such evil. they should never be allowed to access to children, or indeed, any very vulnerable person again.

Why can't they name those involved - is it to protect other children?

Wasn't it a lodger that was involved? His statement was that he heard someone going into the little boys room in the middle of the night whilst he was crying and he heard him being suffocated. I mean why the hell wouldn't you stop that happening? And the Peadiatritian, I mean missing those awful injuries on a baby on the at risk register? What the hell are these registers actually for?

This case really beggars belief I am so angry for that little child. may he rest in peace.

What the hell is tht bloody woman going on about on Radio 4?

Information technology, what has that got to do with their staff not doing their jobs properly?

Let me guess - lessons will be learned.

crush agree re paediatrician - apparently her contact hasn't been renewed.. really?

Absolutely appalled and shocked that this can happen again in Haringey or anywhere else. The child and mother were seen 60 times by SS and his injuries weren't picked up on? His own mother smeared him in chocolate to cover his cuts and bruises. As a mother this makes me feel sick to my stomach. This poor child was in hospital 2 days before he died, how the hell was he allowed back to the family home?

Its an absolute disgrace. I hope those found guilty rot in hell. They should never be allowed back into society, but of course they will be because the 'justice' system is a joke

RIP Litte one x

lets hope they get some sort of punishment in prison...

But she is working elsewhere, poppy34.

jesuswhatnext I know it was one of the nazi's horrible 'solutions'- but that was done to Jews, Gypsys, gays, anyone mentally ill or with learning disabilities -in other words innocent, harmless people (in so far as any human is). A bit of a different case than murdering child abusers don't you think? Anyway fair enough not to agree with me. I'd be happy if this kind of abuse could simply be more effectively stopped by the people who's jobs are meant to be to STOP it.

Message withdrawn