What are your thoughts on replacing council tax with land value tax?

[MikeRafone]

So what are the thoughts to scrap council tax and instead tax value land?

that is what Andy Burnham wants to do if he gets where he want

he sees council tax as a regressive tax, as unfair and wants to see it changed to a land value tax.

Churchill was. In favour of Land tax as a fairer system. Advocated for by Adam Smith the founder of modern economics and Milton Friedman adviser to Margaret Thatcher

Why should the wealthy pay more when they are probably using a lot services, private education, private healthcare etc.

Yes, you can move a bank account abroad but the moment you bring money into the UK to spend it this counts as income and is taxed. Offshore accounts don't have credit cards so can't be used like a personal UK bank account.

There are tax free allowances but they are called tax credits, there would be a revolution if not! I haven't a clue how income taxes in UK compare! I think it may be the way it's computed that you are referring to.

Single
Tax at 20% on first E44000
Tax at 40% on the balance.
Total tax
Less personal tax credits

Married 20% on first E53,000 + on partner/spouse first E35,000,
53k if only one earner.
Deduct tax credits.

PRSI is payable too, similar to NI.

That's not scientific as there are credits/allowances for various circumstances like home carer, age, and so on that don't apply to everyone.

Maybe they should take a multi pronged view to make it really fair -

1. Tax on property based on the number of bedrooms/bathrooms
2. Tax on number of people living in property with children included.
3. Tax on the size of the garden.
4. Credit if you don't use state education.
5. Credit if you have private health care.

This will stop people in the South being penalised for having an expensive property which is something out of our control, plus we are already at a disadvantage because of this. I have a 4 bed/ 2 bath house worth almost £2 million so not large at all. We do have a very big garden and outbuildings/sheds so perhaps should pay more for this.

It needs to be equal accross the country and should include 'use' of services.

I can’t quite understand how it would work. I own a leasehold flat, live alone so get a 25% discount on my Council Tax and pay £1600 a year.

The development in terms of actual flats is quite small however we have a lot of grounds and two parking spaces per unit.

If the owners of the land have to pay this cost, surely they will just pass it on to the leaseholders. Will that will be at cost or will they add an ‘administrative charge’ to it? They already have us over a barrel with management fees.

How would that be fair though, for instance with small terraced cottages and 2-3 bed houses built decades (or indeed centuries) ago? Most of them have larger gardens than the brand new shiny houses springing up all over the country, which are all crammed into the smallest possible parcel of land so the developer can build the absolute maximum number of properties.

Look round any housing estate built in the 50's or 60's and they all have front gardens as well as back, and their gardens were a sensible size. Victorian two up, two down cottages often have long, narrow gardens, precisely so the occupiers could grow their own veg. Why should their properties be assessed at a higher level than bigger, far more valuable new houses with gardens like a postage stamp?

Also - I don't see how they would account for the difference in the value of land depending on whether or not it is urban or rural? If the land surrounding your home is agricultural it will be worth far less per acre than if you lived in the middle of a town or an area set aside for development.

Daft idea.

Yeah with tax credits it works out that you don’t pay tax on €20,000 per year as a single person and €53,000 per year (combined) as a married couple.
But there are some small levy’s on this.

the amount you can earn and not pay a cent of tax etc is €13k

the average salary in Ireland is 53-55k apparently

Sounds like a tax on the South East. We’re already paying more for our housing than residents in many other areas, so if land tax is a percentage of the value we’ll presumably end up paying more for our plots than residents in other areas. The government already redistributes funding to less affluent areas via the national funding formulae. Our council receives one of the lowest levels of central government funding per resident in the country due to these formulae, so in addition to paying our (not inconsiderable) council tax, the council has to raise extra funds via things like very steep parking charges for council run facilities such as country parks. So no, I’m not in favour.

@OutOfApricotsI think it’s daft too. Burnham will probably have loads more to bash the “rich” who aren’t that rich. Also who is going to value all of this?! The cost of valuations to get bands would be ludicrous! Plus council tax is spent locally so is this extra income going to be given to central government for distribution as Labour sees fit or given to local councils? It’s just ridiculous and definitely a city dweller idea that we all have masses of untaxed land so we must all be rich in the countryside.

Thats the system we have in Australia. Renters aren’t liable for the payment, just the landlord.

I'll bet a majority in the southeast simply don't have the income to pay more, with our large mortgages to live here in the first place, or pensioners.

With mortgage interest rates so high, there's no buffer. No cash today yet more, on top of such high income tax etc. just like pensioners.

So what happens then?
Land value is only accurate if someone is willing to pay that.
If no one is willing to pay that, the value given is incorrect and thus the LVT is meaningless.

It's a gravy train of jobs too, like someone said earlier. I wonder who would be in line to enjoy thar endless government contracted work....

Not liable for it. But the landlord would look to increase their income in order to pay it...
Obviously

Looking forward to my credit for not using state education and healthcare

I believe in France each area has a fixed price per sqm

so £10 per sqm for example

but I think we need to be careful comparing ourselves to countries where they have a lot of spare land and a different housing market. We have a housing crisis so we need to be encouraging building and not having empty properties. If we are trying to encourage council housing this would be another cost on them if the freeholder pays it?

I just don’t know if it’s almost too late to retrofit it

Why? Your private doctors were probably trained by the NHS. All A&E in the UK is provided by the NHS. Many staff who work in the private state sector have benefited or will benefit from state education, the NHS, state pensions and other state benefits.

Private schools are staffed by teachers, bursars and staff of whom many have benefited or will benefit from from state education, the NHS, state pensions and other state benefits.

I am surprised to read on this thread that so many landlords pay the Council Tax, not the tenants. My son rents his house out via an agency (currently unable to sell it due to a legal problem).

His tenants are billed for by, and pay the Council Tax directly to, the Council. Their rent is a normal market rate for the area, or slightly lower.

I don’t think anyone has said the landlord pays council tax - it is the resident

the proposed lvt would be the landlords liability

I live in a 2 bed bungalow on a small cul de sac of 15 houses some of which are 5 bedroomed houses but because of how the road was designed my garden is the largest .
I would be pissed off if a land tax came in .

@BeardySchnauzer So rent hikes and even fewer properties to rent? There’s so many losers if anything like this happens!

Let’s not beat about the bush - It’s his way of fleeceing anyone who doesn’t live in the north isn’t it? 🙄

Dexterrr

did you go to private school and you weren't born in a hospital, what would you do in the event of a crash or accident?

@Marmalademorning Yes, essentially but lots of Londoners don’t have much land!

Just moved. Really stretched ourselves to buy a forever home and paid a £28k stamp duty. If the LVT is significantly more than the council tax we’d have to move.

More teams Burnham research?

Ha! If it is then please stop raising the tax burden and tinkering around

Westminster council tax is low because it’s a very wealthy area with few residents and fewer services required. Westminster is not spending massive percentages of its budget on sen provision, school taxis, child services and elderly care.