Henry Nowak - just watched the video for the first time

[EvangelicalAboutButteredToast]

I don’t understand how the officers could not tell he had been stabbed. He repeatedly says he can’t breathe and when he says he has been stabbed, they say, ‘I don’t think so mate.’ When he says it again they ask where and he says his face, they then roll him over so they can look at his face, and the video ends with the officer saying the handcuffed victim was likely going to be sick.

i completely understand the officers went there having been told a lie and you see the perpetrator on the video retelling the lie and claiming he’d been a victim of a racist assault, i just can’t understand how the officers didn’t recognise the guy on the floor was dying.

As another white female I have never felt one bit a second class citizen. Can you please clarify what real life experiences you have had exactly that make you feel this way?

Can you also clarify exactly what you think should be done in retaliation to this case?

Well the other who commit similarly violent crimes should too. Henry doesn’t get to come back in 21 years and lead a normal life.

There is no place for it here at all. It is disgusting that people have tried to bring it in. In all likelihood, the victim would not be supportive of GC views given his age/generation.

Yeah sentencing here doesn't work like that and never has.

I don’t understand this either. It’s a harrowing story.

Thank you for the link to the sentencing remarks. Awful, just awful. I note that the judge, who has clearly had to look into this, says:

You were sober but were carrying a large Sikh dagger in a sheath attached to a belt over the outside of your clothing. It is a strict requirement of the Sikh faith to have a knife, called a kirpan, at all times. Generally, this will be a small knife, hidden from view, often on a length of cord and worn around the neck. You had that but, in addition, the large dagger in a sheath. You are a member of an order of Sikhs called the Nihang who have a tradition of having a second knife, or kirpan and that is often fully visible, believing that the guru will look favourably on that. You observed that tradition in your everyday life, at work and in public. However, it was not a strict requirement; that is borne out by the fact that neither your brother nor father who arrived on the scene after you had stabbed Henry were so dressed. According to Professor Gurnam Singh, Professor of Sociology and an expert in the field: “Over the last 30 years, there has been a trend towards younger people wearing a kirpan with pride, in a desire to express their cultural identity. They see it as an act of resistance to being denied the ability otherwise to display their identity.”

11. The privilege extended to practising Sikhs of being allowed to be in public with a bladed article and, particularly in respect of the large dagger, a highly dangerous weapon, easily accessible to the wearer, brings with it huge responsibility.

12. It is a fundamental principle of Sikhism that any kirpan is worn as a symbol of religious faith and is never to be carried for an offensive purpose. The legal approach to the carrying of such a knife, as long as the blade length does not exceed 9 inches, is that an offence of Having a Bladed Article in a public place will not be prosecuted; there has been an acceptance that its possession in those circumstances, can amount to a good religious and, therefore, legal reason for having it. The blade of the knife will not be on display; either it is under clothing or, alternatively, in a sheath. For both, it is a religious and, consequently, legal requirement that a kirpan should only be used offensively as a last resort, which would include its use in legal self-defence. In other words, only if use is necessary and, if so, reasonable in the circumstances. It is obvious that for use to be reasonable, any perceived threat justifying its use would only be in circumstances of great seriousness and urgency.

We all need to unite against evil and not get caught up in the religious argument. It was not a Kirpan it was a much bigger sword and he was not carrying it for religious reasons. This is such a sad and horrifying story.

I agree. Would there be any reason Sikhs wouldn’t be able to incorporate a miniature Kirpan replica into a piece of jewellery, for instance, similar to a Christian wearing a small crucifix or a Jewish person wearing a Star of David symbol, rather than anyone being legally permitted to carry a knife for whatever reason?
I think the argument that knife crime isn’t a particular problem within the Sikh community, while I’m sure that’s true, is a bit of a red herring. The vast majority of people with access to kitchen knives don’t use them to stab people, after all, but some do, which is why carrying of knives should be illegal for all. Having exceptions blurs the boundary and weakens the constraint.

The judge's comments below explain that he is legally allowed to carry a knife up to 9 inches long as part of being in the Nihang order of Sikhs.

10. You were sober but were carrying a large Sikh dagger in a sheath attached to a belt over the outside of your clothing. It is a strict requirement of the Sikh faith to have a knife, called a kirpan, at all times. Generally, this will be a small knife, hidden from view, often on a length of cord and worn around the neck. You had that but, in addition, the large dagger in a sheath. You are a member of an order of Sikhs called the Nihang who have a tradition of having a second knife, or kirpan and that is often fully visible, believing that the guru will look favourably on that. You observed that tradition in your everyday life, at work and in public. However, it was not a strict requirement; that is borne out by the fact that neither your brother nor father who arrived on the scene after you had stabbed Henry were so dressed. According to Professor Gurnam Singh, Professor of Sociology and an expert in the field: “Over the last 30 years, there has been a trend towards younger people wearing a kirpan with pride, in a desire to express their cultural identity. They see it as an act of resistance to being denied the ability otherwise to display their identity.”
11. The privilege extended to practising Sikhs of being allowed to be in public with a bladed article and, particularly in respect of the large dagger, a highly dangerous weapon, easily accessible to the wearer, brings with it huge responsibility.
12. It is a fundamental principle of Sikhism that any kirpan is worn as a symbol of religious faith and is never to be carried for an offensive purpose. The legal approach to the carrying of such a knife, as long as the blade length does not exceed 9 inches, is that an offence of Having a Bladed Article in a public place will not be prosecuted; there has been an acceptance that its possession in those circumstances, can amount to a good religious and, therefore, legal reason for having it. The blade of the knife will not be on display; either it is under clothing or, alternatively, in a sheath. For both, it is a religious and, consequently, legal requirement that a kirpan should only be used offensively as a last resort, which would include its use in legal self-defence. In other words, only if use is necessary and, if so, reasonable in the circumstances. It is obvious that for use to be reasonable, any perceived threat justifying its use would only be in circumstances of great seriousness and urgency.

And yet we put a near total ban on the public owning guns after Dunblane.

No, it isn’t just the issue. It’s the result of the issue that @Fixydodah described. That is what caused this scenario to unfold.

When was the last time you were stopped and searched as part of a routine/random check?

Who cares?

The law should apply to everyone regardless of religion.

It’s an open forum. People will notice patterns and comment on them. Policing patterns are relevant to this thread. It’s obviously struck a sore point for you, so I’d recommend you don’t get drawn in. It’s not worth it. I also don’t think anyone should surmise about the political opinions of the victim. We don’t know either way. All I can say is that he looks like a nice kid. He’s been denied his entire adult life and his last moments of life were made horrific by the failures of the police officiers to check his wellbeing and comfort him in his dying moments.

Totally this

The way the police disbelieved the white, dying victim and believed the non-white perpetrator is shocking.

The poor lad, the poor family.

Yes exactly

This ☝! I am just so incredibly sad we have come to this, I cant even find the words I feel so sick..

Surely anyone anyone with ANY empathy would have looked at the chap on the floor and released him from his cuffs when he said 9 times.....NINE times ,he couldn't breathe!

Above all the police officers role should have been to quickly assess and PRESERVE LIFE! First and foremost.
At that point whether the collapsed person was the perp or the victim wouldn't matter. You don't mess around when someone tell you they cant breathe.

ABC....Airways, Breathing, Circulation.

How the hell are we training our police officers? If this had been a brown man, there would be riots in the streets.

The judge says maximum length was a nine inch blade carried openly over the clothing (I posted the relevant bit from the sentencing remarks above). I will admit to being shocked by this as I had no idea a ceremonial weapon of this size could be carried about legally.

It does not trump the law. It is the law.

In general, it is illegal to carry a knife other than a folding pocket knife with a blade of 3 inches or less without good reason or lawful authority. However, it is not an offence if you have the knife for use at work, for religious reasons or as part of a national costume. So, for example, it is legal for someone wearing traditional Scottish Highland dress to carry a sgian dubh - a dagger with a blade typically 3.5 inches long tucked into the stocking.

I understand those who want to ban knives completely, but any Scotsman who wants to wear their traditional costume will disagree.

Shameless disrespect.

No, but I’m sure we have seen longer sentences given to heinous murders. Let’s hope he gets more than the minimum. He’s not a safe person.

'I can't breathe'

Is Starmer going to bend the knee for Nowak? Will our football teams follow suit? I'm eagerly awaiting the marches too, and everyone posting a white square on social media.

The Police in this case, didn't deliberately fail to treat the victim, they were negligent and incompetent but it was a mistake.

Take the Knee was about deliberate Police brutality/murder.

Its sick that some people try turn this into their own twisted political points scoring.

I also do not understand the law allowing the carrying of a large knife but people can be stabbed with screwdrivers, kitchen knives, tools etc.

What's disgusting about this is it happened last year. The mainstream media is only reporting on it now because too many people know about it.

People have been outraged on 'far right' 🙄 media channels for months while most people who watch BBC and ITV are walking around oblivious of this horrible crime. I think people need to watch more of the thousands of videos that are out there and they will be a lot more informed of the horrible crimes that are going on in thus country.