Henry Nowak - just watched the video for the first time

[EvangelicalAboutButteredToast]

I don’t understand how the officers could not tell he had been stabbed. He repeatedly says he can’t breathe and when he says he has been stabbed, they say, ‘I don’t think so mate.’ When he says it again they ask where and he says his face, they then roll him over so they can look at his face, and the video ends with the officer saying the handcuffed victim was likely going to be sick.

i completely understand the officers went there having been told a lie and you see the perpetrator on the video retelling the lie and claiming he’d been a victim of a racist assault, i just can’t understand how the officers didn’t recognise the guy on the floor was dying.

I take your point, but again I’d say ‘own it’. If you share beliefs espoused by particular politicians, left or right, stand by them. Don’t pretend you’ve been backed into it.

I don’t think it’s either right or left to think there’s a racist aspect to the murder of Henry Nowak. I do think it’s a specialty of the right at the moment to frame it as such, because it speaks to a demographic that feels ignored and impoverished. Some of that demographic is indeed badly off, but by no means all.

Indeed. By that logic we older women can all be allowed to carry submachine guns!

Although it might be wise to make an exception for menopausal women - once that's done, you should be good to go.

I do think there is an issue with policing and the point about all people being equal before the law is completely reasonable.

We then have to have a conversation about banning Scottish ones, swiss army knives, pen knives kirpans etc. ofcourse something like 50% of stabbings are actually done with a kitchen knife so I’m not sure banning all of the others will actually make a difference to knife crime. I think the other stabbings are an assortment of things like machetes, zombie knives etc.

No, they’re usually handcuffed at the scene of a potential crime - ya know, with someone telling the police they’ve been stabbed and actual witnesses backing it up ? Unless ethnicity. Then the perpetrators somehow are afforded the benefit of the doubt.

You stated that it is irrelevant whether knives are illegal because they’ll be used regardless by those who want to.

I expanded on that point

that brother said that HE had been attacked. He was video'd saying his eye was swollen and that HE had been attacked. That's not believing the lies of a brother.

The video is so upsetting.

Whose house are they at though?

And why is the murderer still there? In most cases they tend to flee after murdering someone, not call the police and hang around until they arrive. Wasn’t he worried that Henry would tell the police what had happened and then be arrested? What was the aim? It doesn’t make sense.

But anyway,

It’s just awful. Poor Henry must have been so confused and terrified by what was happening. It’s heartbreaking and my thoughts are with his family. I can’t even imagine how they have coped with all of this, both when it happened but having to face it being all across the media again now. It’s just tragic.

Oh you were talking about the police inaction. I thought you meant the motivation of the murder.

Fully agree. But then we are all generally good. And yet we all have to go through security checks at the airport. Despite the fact we are all generally good. But we cannot carry 150ml liquid on a flight. I get that and appreciate it and respect it. Sikhs now must respect that they all cannot carry knives. Surely ?

Do you understand the history of Sikhs coming to this country?

We invaded them. The anglo-Sikh wars. The British east India company invaded them, and won, dethroned their Maharaja and exiled him back to Britain. Thats what started Sikhs settling here. Then in the 50s, we brought loads over to fill labour shortages. And Sikhs integrated, and become solid parts of our communities. They don’t have a history of violence, religious or otherwise, they don’t have gangs running around or cause racial tensions or try to impose their own religious laws. Sikhs have literally never been an issue in Britain - and we attacked them and brought them here.

Sikhs are not illegal immigrants. They don’t “come over here and take over our laws” or whatever you think they are doing.

This crime is not a “letting people into the country” issue.

I do think there is an issue with policing and the point about all people being equal before the law is completely reasonable.

I don’t think this is an issue with all Sikhs in general. Sikhs are (afaik) one of the most successful and well-integrated communities in the UK. And there is - luckily - no mass epidemic of stabbings perpetuated by Sikhs.

but this is definitely a policing issue! absolutely disgraceful and horrific behaviour by the police officers involved.

That poor young man. I can’t imagine what his family must be going through… His father‘s speech was very moving.

I haven’t RTFT but it’s quite chilling how calm the family are whilst they presumably all know how serious his injuries were, even if they didn’t know they were fatal.

Are people typically handcuffed at the police station?

The judge who had said that the jurors should consider a manslaughter charge, of course there was no criticism from him as he didn't belive Henry had been murdered

Completely agree.

Guns weren’t a problem before Dunblane. Something isn’t a problem until it is, usually after something horrific like this.

I have the utmost respect for Sikh’s; they are some of the kindest, most generous people I’ve ever met but religion is not above the law. Nobody should be able to carry a blade in public.

There is a knife crime epidemic, thousands of teenagers are being killed. Safety has to come first.

No, I said that the knife crime epidemic we have is being done using illegally carried knives; in response to that poster saying that if we outlaw Sikh knives as well then there will be no more deaths by blades. I was point out how very wrong they are, and how much more work knife crime takes than just making them illegal.

You just wanted to attacked anything I said instead of looking at the bloody context of my reply.

That depends on the people involved, the general situation etc. Some people are. Many people are not.

I don’t think this is an issue with all Sikhs in general. Sikhs are (afaik) one of the most successful and well-integrated communities in the UK. And there is - luckily - no mass epidemic of stabbings perpetuated by Sikhs.

I think it’s this kind of widespread which led to the police acting as they did imo.

I understand everything you’re saying. It still doesn’t make me a racist. I don’t care what your race or religion is, or whether you are born in this country or not. My point is that we’ve now got to a situation in the UK where the word of a dying white person is disregarded for the word of the ethnic person who attacked them. The second that happens, it changes everything.

I don't often get emotional about this sort of incident, but the video has absolutely shocked and saddened me immensely. That poor boy who had done nothing wrong was treated abominably and the perpetrator gloating over the scene was just disgusting. It led me to wonder why there is so much violence in this country now - when I was younger I cannot remember people carrying knives being normal, but these Sikh people are allowed to do so - why? ANYBODY carrying a knife should be stopped and searched - I don't care if their religion says they are allowed to.

He said they could consider it not that he did not believe it was murder.

I apologise, I didn’t mean you specifically in the foreigner comment, it is the tone generally of some posters.

Elsewhere I have already made the point that the sikh community may need to reflect on what would be reasonable and accommodate the wider community and a conversation about alignment of the religious exemption with what is already legal may be a sensible path forward. The reason it was shocking is because people never really noticed that baptised sikhs can carry kirpans because sikhs generally don’t stab people despite the religious exemption. It is fine for the law to change in response to a change of circumstances or facts on the ground.

I won’t go over what I said as it’s in this thread somewhere. At no point have I ever argued that sikhs should be able to carry large swords in public, in fact I said school children should not be able to carry them at all.

I think there is a debate that needs to be had given there was a loss of life.

Not immediately but surely check if he was indeed wounded before handcuffing him!

We aren’t at that point though. If Digwa was black rather than Sikh the outcome would be different. It appears the police were fed a convincing story and given who fed it to them, they believed it.

That is not the fault of the larger Sikh community. It's the fault of the police and the evil perpetrator/ family.
Sikhs are as British as you are.