Henry Nowak - just watched the video for the first time

[EvangelicalAboutButteredToast]

I don’t understand how the officers could not tell he had been stabbed. He repeatedly says he can’t breathe and when he says he has been stabbed, they say, ‘I don’t think so mate.’ When he says it again they ask where and he says his face, they then roll him over so they can look at his face, and the video ends with the officer saying the handcuffed victim was likely going to be sick.

i completely understand the officers went there having been told a lie and you see the perpetrator on the video retelling the lie and claiming he’d been a victim of a racist assault, i just can’t understand how the officers didn’t recognise the guy on the floor was dying.

The judge called it a 'Sikh ' knife in his remarks to the court and because of the branch of Sikhism the perpetrator follows he was legally allowed to carry it.
It's all there in the judge's sentencing remarks.

I've been so upset about this all day. Watched the home secretary statement live. Seems CPS now charging the rest of the murderers family with offences

I don't really want helping. I'm not here to leverage the death of a child to advance my personal hobby horse. LOVING that trans/gender critical rights showed up in the thread early doors. That was super classy.

We should be talking about knife crime. What's gone wrong with the kids. Clutching our pearls over kirpans all day... Let's all just REACT, and take the conversation in a direction that will do fuck all to make the streets safer, because our kids aren't stabbing each other with kirpans. A lad turned up with a machete at my son's end of school party the other week. There's a conversation that needs to be had and directing rage at Sikhs ain't it.

That absolute bastard should never be allowed to see the light of day again. His inhumane mother and brother shouldn’t either. Officers should have checked Henry for stab wounds.
I can’t bear to think of that young man suffering such a cold and lonely death without an ounce of compassion shown by anyone. The police didn’t know Henry was dying but those scumbags did and continued ignoring him whilst lying to the police. To think they were possibly the last words Henry heard is harrowingly unimaginable.

Because it’s would be being done as a reaction to this crime. Which had nothing to do with Sikhism. Its effectively blaming, incorrectly, the crime on the perpetrators religious symbol, and would act to other Sikhs in general. Which you can surely see is not the correct response here?

It shouldn’t even be the context in which this case is in any way being discussed. Because groups such as Reform find it quite useful to use this kind of thing to sow division in society. Lots of people see ‘Sikh perpetrator carries religious knife’ and conclude that that was why and how Henry was murdered. There is then a backlash against innocent communities. Which is exactly what the far right want.

posters saying ‘ so I could self identify as a seek and stab someone with my Kirpan’ are missing the point. A Sikh can’t stab someone with his Kirpan offensively and use it as a get out of all defence. Anymore than I could with the bread knife I bought home in my bag from Tesco today.
And nor would they want to, as from a religious point of view, that isn’t the point of carrying it.

Let me rephrase then and thank you for your clarification, it’s useful.

Why does respecting cultural traditions trump common sense and awareness of the health and safety of the general public?

I don’t care where you’re from or what your religious or ethnic background dictates - you shouldn’t be in possession of a knife when you’re outside your home.

This is so heartbreaking and upsetting.
To know these were their darling boys last minutes.
As he was walking home minding his own business.
I have found it so upsetting.
I just cannot imagine the grief of his family.

I cannot understand the police treatment of him.
He was clearly outnumbered by the police and disorientated.

May god forgive them for their treatment of him.
They should not be allowed to resign and avoid investigation.
Utterly shameful.

And I have repeatedly said sikhs need to think about this as well. I am not at any point defending carrying large blades. His Kirpan was around his neck. There are many types of “sikh” blades due to history only the Kirpan is sacred and must be worn. As I said you have no obligation to know any of this

Sikhs ethos is non-violent, egalitarian (including women by the way, as I said women carry the kirpan) but it had to adapt to protect itself from invasion Mughals and Afghans. Thats why it looks the way it does. It is not because Sikhs are generally violent or everyone is armed to the teeth.

Oh FFS !!!

The rhetoric from folk like Farage, and some folk on here, is disgusting.

It’s not Farage or even Tommy Robinson that are the problem here - they haven’t got the power or the broad influence.

This government and recent governments have caused this situation and the current tensions with their anti British stance in so many things. Causing the police training to prioritise racial abuse over all else as just one example. This case has hit the headlines because the police behaviour was so heinous but as an observer notes - they have had this hammered into them in training - there will be many more examples.

Keir Starmer’s obvious anti British bias where he declaims ordinary people going on a march to express their well founded concerns over immigration as ‘the biggest threat to our country’.

I just wonder why Stephen Lawrence's family weren't expected to ignore the racism of his murder in favour of a more general "they're just bad boys".

Was it not sowing division to point out the racist nature of his murder? What's the difference?

In contrast the murderer Vickrum Digwa was afforded gentle policing when he was taken to the station, he wasn't even hand cuffed, nor was his brother and they were chatting about the murder in the car in their language.

Vickrum was allowed to walk to the police kitchen and choose his preferred food, no hand cuffs in sight.

Strange, these were the SAME officers who cuffed Henry Novak when he was was dying on the street.

So it was because they lived in a violent society and time and felt the need to arm themselves. Maybe other people might start to feel the same thing in Europe now, or would that be different? Women are not even allowed to carry pepper spray.

I just listened to the phone call to the police, a complete lie.
Will the brother be charged for his false report?
I hope so.

They’d never be able to prove it. The brother’s defence would be that he repeated what his brother told him as he didn’t see the attack.

Already has been, along with mum and dad. Quite rightly.

Letting them talk was a smart move. It helped the case against him.

Absolute bollocks. He was a Sikh and stabbed an 18 year old kid, who he then tried to say he had racially abused him. Don’t care what the religious point of view was - an 18 year old innocent boy is dead and the police are complicit because being white and male counts for nothing in this country any more.

I don’t think he was murdered because he was white, I think he was murdered because Digwa was a thin skinned, reactive person with zero self control. I think we have to acknowledge though that the accusation that he was racist affected the polices response, which should never happen. Regardless of what you may believe someone may have said or done, if they say they have been stabbed the police should check and not just take someones word for it. It may even be because sikhs aren’t generally very criminal it worked against Novak.

He has been charged with weapon possessions. Not for making a false report, at least not on the list of charges I saw.

Kids in secondary schools are allowed to carry a kirpan, not that it’s widely publicised to the other parents.

They are also allowed in courtrooms. I could not believe it when I read that while on jury service some years ago.

Courtrooms are some of the most secure rooms in the land - for very good reason. But exceptions are made for these particular knives - bonkers!!

(Sorry not rtft so this may have been mentioned already)

Wtf

Utterly negligent policing allowing the brothers to talk to each other /even more so that it was in language that presumably the police working understand. They should have been handcuffed in separate cars.

I don't know. If I were a teenage boy who had an ongoing conflict with a Sikh boy whom I knew was allowed to carry a knife and was going to be an an end of year party, well I might decide that I needed a knife too. Would that seriously not even cross your mind?

And you’ve just illustrated my point. You are saying that Henry was stabbed because he was white and the murderer was Sikh and it was because he was Sikh that he committed this crime. Which is unlikely to be the case. Henry was murdered because he encountered a nutter who also happened to be Sikh. There is a difference.