Henry Nowak - just watched the video for the first time

[EvangelicalAboutButteredToast]

I don’t understand how the officers could not tell he had been stabbed. He repeatedly says he can’t breathe and when he says he has been stabbed, they say, ‘I don’t think so mate.’ When he says it again they ask where and he says his face, they then roll him over so they can look at his face, and the video ends with the officer saying the handcuffed victim was likely going to be sick.

i completely understand the officers went there having been told a lie and you see the perpetrator on the video retelling the lie and claiming he’d been a victim of a racist assault, i just can’t understand how the officers didn’t recognise the guy on the floor was dying.

How do you protect the weak with a knife in a non-violent way?

But of course if one was white and 'cried racist' - jack shit would happen.

I don’t care. The ‘solution’ looks like everybody being banned from carrying any illegal blade unless they have a substantiated plausible reason to do so. This is the current law which applies to the 99% of the population that are not Sikh.

I see no reason to make special exemptions.

It’s not lost on me that there are many non white posters here who can correctly identify and grapple with this issue for what it is, which is wanting equality before the law and for the default position that only whites can be bigoted or racist to be dialled back in favour of a merits approach where preconceptions don’t end up getting innocent people killed.

Possibly because they’re better at spotting a lack of equality in how Henry was treated? And the only posters accusing everyone and everything of being racist appear to be white 🤷‍♀️

Digwa had machetes in his house so he would have killed somebody with something some day. With the support of his horrible family. Weapon immaterial, I think.

I totally agree with this. The guy murdered Henry because he's an evil, despicable, murdering twat, not because he is Sikh.

People who get their news from the BBC are woefully uninformed.
Rupert Low has been giving harrowing accounts of tape gang victims testimony yesterday and today in parliament /surely a newsworthy item, but of course you won’t hear about it on the BBC.

"The kirpan is usually very small and not able to do any damage. Think the size of a small nail clipper."

I have seen smaller ones, however in this image are ones that are also legal to carry. I disagree that they 'would not be able to do damage'.

I agree that Sikhs are known for their kindness, and wish there was more of it in the world.

However, under no circumstances should it be legal in any public place to be carrying these. Other countries have banned it, and they are happy to wear a pin/brooch that symbolises the Kirpan.

I don't disagree that there is systemic racism in the police force. No denial here.
But for every accusation of 'two tier' policing in which the police are ostensibly afraid to deal with perpetrators of colour lest it be seen as racist, there's an accusation of vile racism against non-whites.

The problem is the police force.

The wider problem is knife crime.

Your post is largely rhetoric.

Same way you do with a plank of wood, your fist, or a Narwhal tusk I would imagine.
Calling for a religious symbol of a section of society to be banned on the basis that its ‘dangerous’ when it’s a) never been used offensively and b) is no more or less dangerous than the bread knife in your drawer, is ridiculous, divisive, would be ineffective against knife crime, and demonises a group of people that have done nothing wrong in this case or any other. The fact that the perpetrator was Sikh and had his Kirpan is completely immaterial to this case. He murdered Henry because he was a nasty individual and probably with a MH issue. That’s plainly obvious and those making it about that are doing so with in my view a very questionable agenda. The total opposite of what Henry’s family have stated they want.

It feels like if someone shouts 'racism' or 'transphobic' then the police immediately look to deal with that. The lad was white and accussed of racism, so who did the police believe the attacker.

The grooming gangs, the white children were ignored and the abusers who were asian men were allowed to go about their abuse for years - because of fears of many of being called racists.

The racist card is being used to prevent victims from being heard. It must stop.

The poor lad was completely failed by the police because a man who was the attacker shouted racism. We have a problem and it's people using 'racism' to cover crimes! It must be dealt with.

The poor young man and his family have been badly failed. It's shameful.

Why would it be divisive? It’s making everyone equal under the law.

Can I ‘identify’ as Sikh if I wish and simply carry the blade without attending a place of worship?

why is that a trans issue - isn't it an issue for women? and the reality is that we're talking bout this case as representative of a wider issue with society. thats why this poster mentioned this. because yes, people are being absolutely hypnotised into making allowances and treating certain people with kid gloves just because they claim to be part of a particular culture/group etc.

This poor man's father is saying that knife crime is a crisis here and he is right. It is not a 'trans issue' to feel that a man could minimise their crime by hiding behind their trans-identity. And sadly it wouldn't even be the first time. This poster isn't inciting hatred towards trans people, they're entering the discussion with a valid point. The same actually applies to female against male violence too as there are men who suffer at the hands of violent women but stereotyping means they get painted as the aggressor.

Aside from the treatment based on group-related-identity, the other thing we're talking about it that other people will feel emboldened to carry knives if certain people are allowed to because of cultural practices (which, by the way, is ridiculous, dangerous, and so obviously discriminatory it's a joke)

Nihangs, you are thinking of Nihangs, this is a tiny group within baptised sikhs and he should never have been accepted and that is something sikhs need to reflect on.

I do think theres are reasonable concerns and I think it’s incumbent on Sikhs to have a good hard think about what a reasonable accommodation looks like. You would have to understand the history of sikhism to understand why kirpans are important to sikhs. Having said that, that may be of no interest to non sikhs (and ofcourse it’s not required that anyone care about that history). We are where we are and it needs to be discussed in a rational and calm matter.

As I said we already have legislation limiting to carrying blades to 3 inches. Many sikhs may not like it but it is also not unreasonable measure. I also don’t think Sikh children should be carrying a kirpan to school unless it’s a symbolic one or sealed. That I completely agree with.

But the whole “dem forrin barbarians” chat is just completely off when it comes to the sikh community and its general conduct.

Can women carry knives to use in self defence, too? Given the epidemic of rape and the fact it's barely prosecuted or punished?

Well said.

They're not my rules.

It's the request of the dead child's father. Which I think should be respected. “We want to use Henry’s heartbreaking story to make change for the better. We do not want his death to be used to create further division, hatred or tension. We want his story to help make our streets safer for everyone."

It IS a long paragraph though. Three sentences. Takes a while to read in these times of just reacting to stuff.

Perhaps if we break it down into bullet points, as you suggest:

• Henry's story is heartbreaking
• We want to use it to make change for the better
• We don't want his death to be used to create further division, hatred or tension
• We want to help make the streets safer for everyone

But sure. Ignore all that. You don't have to respect his wishes. It's only his kid that died. Crack on.

How quickly this thread has moved from the horror and sadness of a young man’s senseless and unfair death to being protective of a Sikh’s right to carry a blade. Henry doesn’t even get one day before all the wet wipe apologists come crawling out to twist the story to suit a multiracial slant. Have your debate about knives another time. It isn’t the multiracial society that is killing this country, it’s the apologists.

Have to agree, he’s the type of person who would have had a blade on him whether he was sikh or not. The way he acted what he did are completely contrary to the rules guiding sikhs in conflict. De-escalation is always the first port of call, pulling a knife on an unarmed man is a cowards way.

Masive trigger warning

The video of his arrest is appalling.

He is laying on the floor injured. says repeatedly 'I've been stabbed', first he is ignored and handcuffed. He is dragged across the gravel. He whimpers and asks for an ambulance He says 'I've been stabbed, I can't breathe'. He repeats it. The officer say's 'you've been stabbed' ..... I stopped in tears.

It is appalling. That poor lad has been failed massively. The victim of racism and the others with him lying about the racist attack should all be in prison every single shitty one of them. Evil.

Ah we can talk about crime and demographics if you wish - but I doubt that'd be the answer you'd like. Proportionality - or in fact disproportionality wouldn't help you.

Yep

This subject is too big and important to the country not to be discussed, despite the family’s wishes. It feels like a pivotal event.

I think this case also adds to the “what about the parents” issue. The Southport killer had “supportive” parents who misled the authorities and paid for and housed weapons.

I really think there needs to be perhaps new legislation that covers this. Turning a blind eye or even condoning a stockpile of knives etc automatically involves a parent in a resulting crime.

I think everyone is horrified which is why theres a discussion about the legality around kirpans.

My first post I sent thoughts and prayers for Novak because god knows it was a horrible horrible death I wouldn’t wish on anyone. No-one is trying to excuse Digwa here, it’s inexcusable.

The disgusting police officer when poor Henry says repeatedly he has been stabbed and he can't breathe says 'I don't think you have mate'.....scum that police officer should be sacked - I'm throughly disgusted with those police officers. How dare they ignore the real victim on the floor begging for help and saying he is stabbed and cannot breathe and ignore and deny him and yet listen to the scum that stabbed him. I'm so full of anger at this ridiculous system where 'racism' is more important than murder or serious harm. The police service needs sorting the fuck out.