Shouldn’t this funeral director be arrested? *MNHQ warning - distressing content*

[MissyB1]

I will post the link (hopefully works). Surely there must be something she could be charged with? And her “business” needs closing down! It’s just beyond words!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gjr0ylenzo

So people can do what they want if we can stick 'mentally unwell' or 'cultural' label on it, is there enough labels on the world or do we habe to keep on creating them, has anyone blamed her childhood yet? Loss of a pet?

Something doesn't have to be illegal to be morally wrong.

As I said earlier, I think she's ill rather than malicious, but she can't be allowed to continue doing this. There is a danger it might lead to tragedy - see my earlier comparison to Dennis Nilsen, who was obsessed with dead bodies following the childhood trauma of seeing a beloved relative's dead body without proper warning or context - and ultimately killed many people to live out his fantasies, viewing the murders as an unpleasant but necessary means to an end.

After the recent intense publicity over those other funeral directors who gave relatives the wrong ashes back and were accused of various other things (can't remember what off top of head and don't really want to delve) I seriously cannot believe that the industry has not been more tightly regulated and people could legitimately set up funeral homes in their living room. I mean, what will it take to change that?

As for this story, words kind of fail me. I feel so sorry for the parents and their babies. It must feel like such a violation.

They can't do "what they like like", but this woman doesn't appear to have done anything illegal. That's what's wrong.

I don’t think anyone has said she can do what she wants. It’s a fact that the police investigated after complaints, and did not find evidence of an actual crime because there are no laws around how bodies are kept.

I think she is in the wrong. I also think that these are the actions of someone who is not well, possibly due to her previous stillbirth.

Yes, I think most people would assume there were strict laws and/or regulations around it. From the article, it does seem like there are regulations (& inspections) that must be followed to be a member of the trade organisations, so if you pick a funeral director who is a member, you’d have more assurance.

That made me shudder.

All humans deserve dignity in death. There is none involved in being contortioned into a baby bouncer and put in front of the TV.

Agree with @NannyOggsScones that this could have been avoided if the authorised funeral director had been prevented from releasing the bodies to her after they'd collected them from the hospital.

Seems like a massive flaw in the system. Can't believe that bodies can just be passed around without any sort of regulation or oversight.

Exactly it’s the lack of respect or dignity 🙁 that’s what will be hurting the families.

But it sounds like (and I could be wrong) the parents wanted to use this woman’s company. She’d been recommended by a friend. So I assume the parents requested the baby be given to her - the initial funeral director can’t refuse.

Thinking about what the process might be, presumably the authorised funeral director released the body to this woman, at the request of the parents, in the same way that he might have released it back to them to arrange for a laying out at home? That's not something I'd choose, but is very important to some people.

How could you legislate against it, without banning anyone from having bodies at home?

Yes I was shocked to find out there is no regulation.

It seems the parents thought the babies would be at the Gallagher's Funeral Home though, even if Amy was arranging the service?

It's very odd behaviour to do without informing parents and then surprising them with the macabre scene. I can't help wonder if it's some sort of kink.

As a bereaved mother myself, I find this absolutely chilling. Having dead babies casually lying around her living room is horrifying enough, but I'm wondering if worse things had been done to them.

I'm shocked that funeral services aren't regulated.

She lost her own baby in the most horrific way, there is definitely trauma surrounding what she has done here.

I agree different people have different ideas about death and what feels right for them (my ILs are Catholic and all relatives come home for 24 hours before the funeral but prior to that they have been kept at a funeral parlour at the correct temperature). However, I seriously doubt anyone using this woman’s services thought she was storing their babies on a sofa or in a bouncer in front of the tv with no refrigeration. The other funeral director, even if just to protect his professional reputation, should have made it his business to understand what she was doing with the bodies because clearly she wasn’t collecting them from the morgue and had to use him to do it.

It sounds like this woman needs to get a reborn and keep away from other people's babies.

I agree with PP that now that waiting for more than an month for a funeral is considered normal (I don't like it at all but whatever) we need some tighter regulations on how bodies are kept. I think these cultural traditions were all well and good when funerals happened within days but not now.

The big case a couple of years ago was in a similar area- bodies being improperly stored, incorrect remains returned, involving more than one funeral service if I remember correctly. It’s surprising that there were actionable issues there, but not here.

And it’s surprising things weren’t more tightly regulated as a result.

It wasn’t that long ago that stillborn babies were removed and disposed of without the parents seeing them or being able to hold a funeral. The care we take now, dressing them photographs, hand prints etc, would have seemed odd to people then. And they’d have massively disapproved of Florrie’s Army FB page. So there is a cultural element in what is and is not acceptable. We only find the line by crossing it occasionally.

It seems that she really needs help. Can she be banned? I’m not sure as there’s no regulations.

Yes, I did a quick Google, it seems miss Upton was violently assaulted by her then partner that resulted in her baby Florrie being stillborn.

I would imagine that the service she set up was well intended and comes from a place of love, and that she genuinely thinks that what she is doing is a kindness to these deceased little ones and their families.

But of course it speaks of a great emotional distress on her part, a belief that these dead children can watch TV for example, or benefit from that - or she is temporarily replacing her daughter. She is unwell, and should be banned from doing this - there is no regulator of the funeral business, but the courts can prevent an individual from carrying on any kind of business by an order if they wish.

Its very sad, all round.

If it went to court she could be banned by court order from working or offering the services of a funeral director.

But there is no regulator of the industry that can strike her off.

Because of her misleading the parents of these babies. She wasn't keeping the bodies at the recommended temperatures so they would be deteriorating much faster than if she did. That is also a health hazard.

She also had dogs and cats around them which is awful. Some of them could even begin eating the bodies as they would view them as food.

Yes, she needs closed down if she isn't going to do things according to the professional code of conduct even if technically no crime has been committed.

I think they funeral director industry does need to be regulated. Urgently. This isn't the first time problems have occurred and when they do it is horrendous for all affected. Not to mention the public health hazard.

Wow this is a really disturbing story. I've looked at the Facebook group and some of the photos. I can't believe this has been allowed to happen with no regulations. I've also seen this on companies house. What a strange name for a funeral director business.
I've removed the address even though it's publicly listed on companies house ( it's in Leeds)

There's no dignity in being stuck in a coffin with the lid closed either. I feel sorry for the parents, must have been a big shock to them.