Fuel Protests

[TwoIfBySea]

For those of us who don't have a choice, for those of us who don't live anywhere near a place with public transport that is reliable and frequent. For those of us who don't have a lorry to drive into London to join the protests against the ridiculous cost that will hit the lowest waged and not the section of society it is aimed at and who have enough to see the current fuel price as inconvenient.

There are petitions of which that is one, so while I doubt government will give a hoot it is at least something. There were 59k signatures when I signed earlier and, like the fuel prices it has shot up!

Sorry, I fueled my car today, and am still feeling like I got mugged. Diesel has gone up far more than unleaded yet is more "efficient" so lets have none of that environment talk.

I grew up in a carless family. We walked, cycled, used the train everywhere - fine because it was cheap then. Trains are now extortionate.
They run pointlessly all day, usually empty round here, then not enough at peak times.

Cars are easier and as Custy says you don't feel insanely squashed against some smelly bloke's armpit or someone stuffing a Casey Jones burger with their feet on the seat.

I really love trains when they're not full, and I'm not in a rush, but a childhood of 4 hour journeys through building/line works in London really put me off for life.

Transport infrastructure needs investment, it needs to work and then people will use it and it will get cheaper...hopefully cheaper first as an incentive.

Sweden and Japan have good models.

Athene: if he wants to head off a recession (which is largely out of his control given the global factors affecting it) then one thing he can is give people a little bit of money to spend.

Simply changing the fuel tax in response to the prevailing oil price seems to be, however, just an incredibly short term and dangerous thing to do especially in such a volatile commodity. Two months ago the price of Brent crude was $100 per barrel, 1 month ago the price was $110, 1 week ago the price was $135 and today the price is $126 and is continuing to fall. 1 year forecasts for the price per barrel vary between from $60 (Lehman Bros) to $200 (Goldman Sachs). What exactly is the right level to change the tax to, or should it change on a weekly basis to match the changing commodity price?

Why does duty have to be a percentage? (And what percentage is it, anybody know that?)Why not a fixed amount per litre? Much easier for the Govt to budget with.

hunker, I don't think any of us can work out the difference in VAT without first knowing the precise current breakdown of fuel cost/gross profit/duty/VAT

athene, when I said 100% I mean they are charging roughly that amount on top of the fuel/profit - probably more but we don't know what the current profit margin is.

Some basic economics here: recessions happen.

There is ultimately NO way to head them off because they are the result of a number of factors, many of which are beyond anyone's control - such as the effect of natural disasters or weather patterns on commodities.

We do need better public transport though.

If it was affordable and ran often then many more would be happier to use it. I keep hearing how France has such a good rail service. Why can't we have that too? Is that being too simplistic? It really puzzles me.

A woman on the radio the other day suggested double decker trains. Apparanatly not an option here. But why?

VAT is charged on duty for everything, Hunker. Why should fuel be any different?

If they didn't charge it on the duty, they would simply charge a higher rate on the basic commodity. At the end of the day, we would still have to pay.

TsarChasm: Tunnels! (This is actually the case...)

Can't they make the tunnels a bit bigger? Blimey when you think about what the Victorians achieved...

We can't have double decker trains because the bridges are not high enough.

electric cars

nice ginger one

does 50 miles.

veggie oil

i think the technology does exist athenanoctua. of course there will be some journeys that require longer than 50 miles per day - my dh is one of those

but usually i am not.

the oil companies have so much clout and money.

'Can't they make the tunnels a bit bigger? '

that's hardly the priority, especially given the expense and the fact that the Victorians weren't exactly the most environmentally conscious people concerned with the impact their 'achievements' had on the geography in which they took place.

improving the present system by focusing on greater and better maintenance, more trains with more carriages at better rates in addition to freight lines is something that needs accomplished long before anyone contemplates double decker trains here.

Where does the electricity come from, Custardo?

And the vegetable oil for that matter (ie: is it a good idea to divert land away from growing food?)

Custy, bio fuels have the same emissions issues. And they impact the food chain. The only difference is they don't eat away at the world fossil fuel reserves. So I can't see it is possible for them to replace fossil fuels.

Nuclear would be more helpful.

We should keep developing other forms of energy, of course. But to say that the technology exists today is not so. kIt has to be financially viable as well.

there is no pollutants with electricity

solar energy - no emmisions

As ScienceTeacher and Athene say, the benefit of biofuels seems pretty debatable according to the IMF amongst others.

Where do the solar panels come from?

Custardo - and how would you produce the electricity?

too slow

But how do you generate electricity, Custardo? We don't have enough hydro sites, and wind/wave power is not yet developed.

We typically generate electricity by burning fossil fuels, or by using nuclear power.

And there are oil-fired power stations

And gas-fired ones - with the gas coming from the oil fields

Wiki list of UK power stations

(Wiki list of English power stations, sorry)

Have just heard on the radio that GB is planning to step up production in the north Sea So that's all right then - lets just use it all up now, as cheap as we can, and bugger our grandchildren. As long as GB avoids TOO big a trouncing @ the polls, all justified.

And whilst he's at it, he can fuck over Scotland even more.

Way to go, GB! You suck. I hope you get everything you've got coming one day.

It's shocking, isn't it? I can't believe he is advocating using up our reserves.